Kind of, but not really, more limited in that it only works a certain distance (3k?) from the TP you would jump to anyway, so you can't jump to anywhere on the Island, but you can avoid gate scouts to a certain extent. You would of course have to get one or more ppl on the Island to start with to activate the device, and an active detector scout around the TP would still probably see you, just not a semi afk Arkhe.

The way I see it there are at least two separate problems with the current arkhe scout mechanic

(1) Its what Annihilator said about pay to win which also blindly favours corps with more members.

2) Its the fact that they are impossible to clear off an inter-island gate as they can keep jumping between the teleports indefinately.  This is a more general problem which has been addressed for intra-island TPs.  Perhaps it could be addressed by reducing the protection timer if someone performs more than 3-4 jumps in a row.

Once (2) is addressed (1) is not as big of an issue.

Also i like the idea of being able to capture the eyes on a TP, no reason to make it hard either imo

The idea of outpost owner corp only that can set probes looks good to me. You limit them to the outpost area. We got islands split in several areas, why not use them? I dont see any problem with this kind of fix ? With limited number too.  Since an outpost can only have one owner, there will be a fixed maximum number of probes per area/island/world...  Its interesting too for the devs with technical implementation and lag.  Reinforce the alliance interest of owning all the OP of an island, so they can "lock it" scouting wise..  Can create funny "one island" war too.  Is a good beginning for PBS bigger than probes.

For example: a beta 1 island has the 3 outposts owned by corps in the same alliance= island scouted and safe. You should even add probe detection sharing for future alliance features...

Example 2:  A beta 2 island has 2 OP owned by ennemies. In that case TP scouting is useless since each corp can only scout its TP.  Then the corps will decide to put their probes in tactical places for disrupting ennemy= more pvp.

You guys need to remember that PBS will add an incentive to own the TERRITORY. Not just defend OP and scout for safety. Cause when there will be bigger/more expensive PBS, one corps if big roam on its island will think twice before "everyone dockup/log out"  It will be more "defend our stuff guys!" 

Probes themselves are fine like they are. You want to balance the item itself.  Its the availability/number/geographical disposition that needs tweaking imo.

Probes should have been attachable to teleporters or just have it so owning an outpost lets you know when a relation level of your choice or below enters the island and how many. Every 20 seconds you get a report of the last 20 seconds of teleporter activity. Let all corp members see pings (Option to not display them if you're getting spammed by them) but set specific members in the corp that receiving instances messages. Perhaps by a new Outpost Overseer role?

"[Teleport Name]: {[Amount] [Relation] [In/Out]}" would look like "Blaha II: 10 Terrible In, 2 Bad Out, 4 Neutral In" etc..

Reports could be set to 60 seconds, 30 seconds.. I don't care about the balance I just care that being on beta you can see which teleports are being used. If you want to know the direction they're moving in send a masked ewar to the game and follow them..

No Probes.

Alright, now that I have had a couple days to calm down about this, I can discuss this reasonably.  If there are to be such a thing as proximity probes, limiting them to outpost owners would create a very 1 sided system.  If they are going to exisit, then everybody should be able to use them.  This would enable non outposts owning corps to perform certain activities on beta islands, and not just be an outpost owning buff.

But there has to be limitations, and cost associated with these.  Some thoughts that have been mentioned are very similar, so if I repeat something already proposed, I do apologise, I'm just trying to summarize the issues.

1) Prox probes should be temporary.  A limitied time use, no more than an hour.  Deploy your probes, and for that period of time you have a sensor net up in the region of their activity.

2) Limited data.  All current proximity sensitive technology reports movement or objects withing their detection range, nothing else.  Probes should only show that there has been some movement in their vicinity.

3) They must be reasonably detectable.  Seeing them at 50m without sensor detecting may be too small a distance.  Another solution is to allow the artifact scanning probes detect the prox probes, so you can zero in on their location.

4) They must be limited as far as number deployed.  The ablity to spam a hundred of these around is just ridiculous.  So here is a suggestion, the probes have to transmit to something else, and be within range of that something else.  A 2 component system.  A prox probe hub has to be deployed, where you are doing whatever, and then you have to deploy the prox probes withing so many meters of the hub, lets say for discussion 1000m.  Overall, you would get a approx 5000m diameter area that you would detect movement in for 1 hour, after which, the equipment burns out and turns to slag.

5) They should be expensive enough that to just spam them everywhere you are doing something is not cost effective.  Epriton mining, farming, or if there is a campaign that an outpost were under attack, it would be worth spending that kind of NIC, but roaming or individuals just doing stuff by themselves is not.  So about and hour before an intrusion, you deploy your sensor net, and await the enemy, or if you have intell that a major scarab/lithus train is going to be moving thru an area on beta, you deploy your net and hope to catch your fish.

6) Visiblity must be limited to the island that they were deployed on, you have to be on the island to see your probes data, i would also say within the 1000 m of the hub if that mechanic is deployed.

7) Limit the number of hubs and probes a corp can deploy at any one time

Just some thoughts, not necessarily solutions, but the basis of good design is having the general functionality and limitation determined before you actually set to work on it. 

What I am more concerned about is the process by which these changes occur.  Typically, some form of peer review of a design or concept should be performed, instead of a single individual making a determination as to how things should be.  Whereas I have no idea as to Avatar Creations internal review policies, I would seriously suggest that there should be some peer review and brainstorming, with consultation with some players as well ( granted many of perp players are not objective, especially if it is a condition that favors them).  Point being, less is more when introducing new features, by which i mean start it nerfed to begin with and build it up, instead of uber and nerf it down, and testing by other individuals who were not involved in the concept or implementation should be performed so that other points of view can be brought into the process and perhaps prevent a repeat of what just occured with the prox probes.

Hum...  i tought the probes were ment to be the first iteration of persistent structures...  If your "so called" fix is to make them with a lifespan then...  whatever.  Looking at the community feedback, i guess PBS are FAR FAR away.  Believe me.

To DEVs:  with a so small player pool, whiner are so vocal and persuasive that you will never go where you want to go. Let the probes persistent please. Obviously no limitation on number and location was really not serious, but i guess you got some good datas to work on.

To us players: let them at least one or two days of datas collecting etc before you sharpen the pitchforks please. I dont think the way we are doing is the most efficient one. IMO they removed too soon, even if i agree that was obviously NOT balanced and ALMOST gamebreaking.  Do like you were in beta please, some speak about test server, well all know its not possible with so low population and limited AC ressources. Be patient and dont call outrage each time an error is made with implementation.

What DEVs need is CONFIDENCE in their VISION and PATIENT players. You think your helping so much with your "was this even tought out trololol", your not.  I dont know if all the whine posts are the reason for removal of the probes, or if its more like an issue with lag created by the unlimited amount of items that were deployed, but if its because whine, it was too soon imo.

One last thing: Some of you says its killing pvp, sure it is, its killing YOUR way of pvping, and it looks like not so much peoples like this way of pvp (gank mostly, you come and find peoples pants down, you kill and you leave)

Those implementations, while killing YOUR pvp style (that i find not so much fun) could create (or REcreate because it already existed) a more fun and intense pvp style, medium to massive engagements.  Because when there is a FIXED IN SPACE goal/target to defend attk, and i dont talk about *** saps but about hard earned persistent structures, the battles will be more fun imo. Your screaming the game is dying and there is no retention of players cause of endgame. But you do everything possible to kill 'the big picture". Peoples i talk about will recognize themselves. We all want a mmorpg/rts, because thats what its ment to become right?  But it looks like nobody want to handle the heat.

Probe fix imo:

*As some dev said, link an extension to them, that limit number of probes AND number of players that can be alerted by the detection network.

*Limit them to outpost owners

*Limit them to the OP area defined in map

*Find someting to stop this ridiculous arkhe scouting, ok its a sandbox but hey, its only consuming ressources server/client side, and add not a single ounce of fun am i right?

Cobalt, you are good thank you the summarize, I agree with you many things but...

Why many of us had bad feelings is that the changes was too much and too quick, they just change the game by 1 thing in 1 day.
If somebody didnt whining about and that probes were stay ingame the pvp was changed. But not that happend.

general thoughts:
What I think when there is enough whiners that mechanics will change. If dont have enough whiners that wont change. So that is a rule of improvements and reforms. Dont really matter that is good or not, just matter how many want to change. But I need to say when that many dont want that is "bad" so this is a collective mind what is control the things.  So that didnt able to happen anything else just change that probes.

I hope you understand what I would like to say in english :S Not so easy ...

Yeah i got it Inda. Your right in saying that "whiners" altogether are the "collective" mind of the player population, even more so with so low pop. But i just wanted to say to the "collective":  be patient guys. Dont scream like it was a slaughter. When i see some guys beginning their post by "now that 2/3 days have passed and im calmed down"...  Really?  Seriously man? A bad implementation in a game you play made you upset for several days? Its just a game some take it real to serious imo.  And all it does is putting PRESSURE on the gamedesigning devs, cause they have less and less FREEDOM of acting because of the OVERREACTING of some (not all whine, peoples that feel its cool in majority dont post on forums,dont go on irc etc..), that imo dont represent FOR SURE the majority of players.

So with less and less freedom, the devs make small and trivial implementations, and the game stagnate, and the players are bored and leave (or let their account running thats not the point).

I wont search the quote for the record, but theres (almost) only one thing that i agreed with binary:  "The game started to suck when devs begun to listen too much to their playerbase, instead of following their vision at all costs." Something like that.  What you made for EULA enforcement (we will bend but wont break, as some wise dev said) you should do it for gamedesign too!  Players dont have the far stretched vision of the future gameplay. Just you have it!!

Some think they are at the helm of the ship designwise. You are just players. You just give feedback.