Topic: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I try to give the DEVs credit for trying to help improve the game, add content and features.  Some things are controversial, and shifting arguements between what is a balanced vs. ppl trying to preserve some overpowered mechanic that benefits them can be a difficult thing.

And then something like this comes along...and all of a sudden, i have to wonder if there is an IQ over 50 involved here.  I'm sorry if that sounds insulting, but was any thought of consequences involved here at all?

I can spam ANY island with prox probes, pull up the world map, and see where EVERYONE IS??!?!?!?! And where they are going, and how many they are, with the probes almost completely invisible?!?!?!?!?!?!

Is it just me, or should it not be obvious that now no one can do anything on beta islands and not have it known by everyone else immediately?  I should not have to even bother to have to explain this.  Roaming gangs? Forget them.  Surprise assault, bah, no such thing anymore.  You know even before your opponents have left an island that they are out and where they are going, and :::convulsion::: and :::convulsion::: aaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhh!

IF YOU CANNOT SEE THAT THESE ARE SO OVERPOWERED THAT EASY BUTTON DOESN"T EVEN COME CLOSE TO DESCRIBING IT, then there is no hope.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

2 (edited by Kaldenines 2012-01-17 20:38:38)

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa sigh
hahahahahahahahahaha lololo111oneelven
sigh

ok ok calm down breathe

+1
-Confucius

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I was going to make a post about my suggestions for a redesign of Perpetuum but after this post it'll just seem like I am whining.

Thanks Lupus.. Probes are a mess, the system feels untested but at the end of the day about 6 months ago we asked for this.. Well someone did.. It's a damn shame they did..

My opinion is probes should have been an addition to scouting. They should have been launched lie interference modules and last a limited time. They should have crazy high detection and low masking and be limited to how many per island you can place. Shame.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I can only hope this feature was not overdone on purpose to justify it's removal in the future.

5 (edited by Sundial 2012-01-17 20:55:09)

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I agree with OP, these are obviously the most blatantly overpowered/game breaking thing to ever be added to Perpetuum.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I haven't played with the system yet.  This should be fun smile

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Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Alexander wrote:

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense

WTF? English is your primary language smile


But yeah;

I have to agree, I tried to see another side of it in our discussion Sun, but if there really is NO LIMIT to the number of probes a corp can have active, OP is right that its OP.

I really thought there was like a limit of (3) probes per corp though, if not, limiting that would fix the OPness.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Calm down everyone.This is the first day with this probe stuff.And I fed up fc!%'+!/kingli  about  these mad herp derp after every new features what comes in the game.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

to bad they are gonna fix the "own corpmates showing up on ping-radar"

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Annihilator wrote:

to bad they are gonna fix the "own corpmates showing up on ping-radar"

I'll take the blame for that one, simply didn't have the time anymore to add it before patch. I'll put it out tomorrow afternoon with some more client upgrades.

[14:15:15] <Freya Sabbat> ...Dear god, the Devs are as bad as us

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Alright we talked about it some more and agreed that without any limits the system seems indeed overpowered. You may now herp some more asking how this could have happened, the truth is we are not perfect, deal with it cool

Our solution offer to the problem is to introduce a new CEO extension (around complexity 5-6), which will allow the corporation to control 1 probe per extension level. If this is in place, no other limitations should be needed.

Additionally we will also introduce another CEO extension (complexity 2-3) for the number of assignable users per probe. The base limit of 10 users will remain, and every level will add +3 users.

13 (edited by Mark Zima 2012-01-17 21:51:28)

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Limiting their number like that changes exactly nothing.

I thought they were meant for defense. But right now they are much more useful for offense. Just sneak a few on an enemy island....

14 (edited by Sundial 2012-01-17 21:54:28)

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I recommend you guys go back to the drawing board, decide what you are trying to achieve and what the side effects will be for beta life / PvP

With Zooms suggestion, you could have the pre outpost lockout plated Arkhe dock/undock manuver except with an invisible sensor near their station.

I would recommend not allowing them on alpha, reducing their masking to 170, reducing their price. Make them supplement proper intel, do not replace detector/masker mechanics with them.

Also, masked bots should easily avoid them.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

DEV Zoom wrote:

Alright we talked about it some more and agreed that without any limits the system seems indeed overpowered. You may now herp some more asking how this could have happened, the truth is we are not perfect, deal with it cool

Our solution offer to the problem is to introduce a new CEO extension (around complexity 5-6), which will allow the corporation to control 1 probe per extension level. If this is in place, no other limitations should be needed.

Additionally we will also introduce another CEO extension (complexity 2-3) for the number of assignable users per probe. The base limit of 10 users will remain, and every level will add +3 users.

That's great and all but what happens when your CEO disappears for a couple monthes due  to real life?  And since we  all know your against account sharing.

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Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Mark Zima wrote:

Limiting their number like that changes exactly nothing.

Changes a huge amount. Right now you can set up sensors on every single teleport in addition to covering every island.

With these changes you can only feasibly cover your island and maybe a teleport or two incoming.

17 (edited by Mark Zima 2012-01-17 21:59:46)

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Sundial is right. First try was fun, but kinda catastrophic. Now please disable it and iterate on design.

Still, I love the idea and I'm all for more defense tools. Hope you'll find a way to make it realistic.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Ville wrote:

That's great and all but what happens when your CEO disappears for a couple monthes due  to real life? 
And since we  all know your against account sharing.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the "CEO extension" does not mean that an online CEO is needed for it to work. It's like the extension for corporation member limit, it only means that the CEO has to install that extension, nothing more.

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Ville wrote:

That's great and all but what happens when your CEO disappears for a couple monthes due  to real life? 
And since we  all know your against account sharing.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, the "CEO extension" does not mean that an online CEO is needed for it to work. It's like the extension for corporation member limit, it only means that the CEO has to install that extension, nothing more.

I fully comprehend that.  What I am saying is that i  have to have an active CEO just to get those installed in the first place and there is more then one corp out there were deputy CEOs are running the  show due to mia ceos.

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Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

How much do they cost?

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Ville wrote:

I fully comprehend that.  What I am saying is that i  have to have an active CEO just to get those installed in the first place and there is more then one corp out there were deputy CEOs are running the  show due to mia ceos.

Right, it's high time for a CEO change mechanic anyway.

22 (edited by Drahkar 2012-01-17 22:16:41)

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

I think a much better solution to limiting probes would be per outpost owned, not per corp. If you own 1 outpost on the island, you can place somewhere between 1 and 5 probes, depending how you want to balance it.

If you limit it per corp, alt corps can be made. A corp is just a list of cooperating agents, it shouldn't physically affect the world in that way. Outposts are concrete and meaningful, you can easily justify it by saying the probes run on power from an outpost, and the outpost can only support a certain number of them. You could also link it to stability or a new upgrade like the current facilities.


They could also be rebalanced in other ways like making signal maskers passively make you immune to probes, or changing it so that instead of seeing people on the radar, you only see your probe turn red if it detects something.

Regardless, they are currently broken and limiting them per corp is only plugging a leak. Please fix the problem.

AXE JOKE ECORP N-A CIR

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

Best solution?....Just SAY NO and get rid of them.  We have detectors, we have maskers, and scouts that can cover tele and strategic locations.

That's all we need, no arm chair easy buttons.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

DEV Zoom wrote:
Ville wrote:

I fully comprehend that.  What I am saying is that i  have to have an active CEO just to get those installed in the first place and there is more then one corp out there were deputy CEOs are running the  show due to mia ceos.

Right, it's high time for a CEO change mechanic anyway.

CEO change mechanic care to elaborate?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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25

Re: Proximity Probes - Was this even though out at all?!?!?!?

DEV Zoom wrote:

Alright we talked about it some more and agreed that without any limits the system seems indeed overpowered. You may now herp some more asking how this could have happened, the truth is we are not perfect, deal with it cool

Our solution offer to the problem is to introduce a new CEO extension (around complexity 5-6), which will allow the corporation to control 1 probe per extension level. If this is in place, no other limitations should be needed.

Additionally we will also introduce another CEO extension (complexity 2-3) for the number of assignable users per probe. The base limit of 10 users will remain, and every level will add +3 users.

I don't like it! Still, once someone drops the probe it'll be almost imposible to find it and take it down. Also with limited probe users and probes itself it's just ... I can't come up with a proper negative adjective to describe this. I'll suject corporations to be smaller so they could cover more ground.

Didn't you have the concept what should it do and HOW? Remember this was an alternative to damn noob Arkhe scouts. Ie. when I thought about that I idea I've imagine huge stick flashing in your face "I see you! I see you!" (decent masking) so defenders should have to place it in places where it's hard to take it down or shield it with the wall.

That's it... for now. Time for some standard RAGE mode 0n:
@Alf
, stop playing Hello Kitty Online, WoW, SWTOR or Skyrim and start playing your own game or get people into your team (may as volunteers) who will do it for you. Start reading some sci-fi books, watch some Gundam anime and/or w/e what is robot related (NO DISNEY).
Think BEFORE you act. Small changes == big impact, huge changes == russian roulette.
You're probably a decent guy irl, but internet robots are serious business.
RAGE mode off

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