Topic: When you give us normal Alliances???

Dev's

Please, give us normal alliances with normal names!
Forum alliances it looks like child game.

Thx.

2 (edited by 0110011100001111001010001 2011-12-19 02:01:35)

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Yea....so what now?

+1 to whatever this guy is on.

Just Sayin
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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

0110011100001111001010001 wrote:

Yea....so what now?

+1 to whatever this guy is on.

+1 lol

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4 (edited by Line 2011-12-19 10:13:02)

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

whoa...WHOS THERE!?

+1

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5 (edited by Syrissa 2011-12-19 16:37:43)

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

too bad we know the devs dont like this and have made their point about it quite a few times.
we all want it. the devs dont want it... too bad...

the problem is the players will always organise outside the corps in a allince. if there are features ingame or not. but it would make it for the players much more comfortable and with the look at pos and big land masses way more easy.
personaly i think its a must... but as mentioned, others dont see it that way. too bad these others make the game.

anyways
+1

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

DEVs are supported by certain so called "pirate" corps that fear a that under the small population, a to stron omnipotent alliance would be created.

wait... that sounds like "lets make it unconvinient so it happens less and creates more QQ and *** in corporation dialoge"

I want alliance feature since... the foundation of my own corp. Since therse a lack of corp / friend / multiaccounting features i want to have my own corp, with its own name and just join an alliance to keep the supremacy over my shared storages, my out-of-squad chat channel topic, my group management and shared financial pool.

+1

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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

This idea has never been discussed before.
I am amazed at the genius of HUST.

+1

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

I'm for it.

+1

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

-1

alliance mechanics are for those that want to hide under the skirts of others.  The "Now they won't mess with my 2 man corp because i am part of X alliance" would be a terrible path to take.  the game is too small for making a super group to dominate the board.

Make friends, run with them, leave them, go another direction or whatever you want to do.  you don't need hand holding mechanics to do that.

If alliance mechanics are the path of least resistance then strong corps will just fill their ranks with cannon fodder for all the <5 man corps and the blob will be the norm.  The game is finally shaping up into some nice pockets of strength and diversity.

Get 500 active members then take another look at it.

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Takeo Prime wrote:

-1

alliance mechanics are for those that want to hide under the skirts of others.  The "Now they won't mess with my 2 man corp because i am part of X alliance" would be a terrible path to take.  the game is too small for making a super group to dominate the board.

Make friends, run with them, leave them, go another direction or whatever you want to do.  you don't need hand holding mechanics to do that.

If alliance mechanics are the path of least resistance then strong corps will just fill their ranks with cannon fodder for all the <5 man corps and the blob will be the norm.  The game is finally shaping up into some nice pockets of strength and diversity.

Get 500 active members then take another look at it.

Aren't you in an alliance lol?

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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Ville wrote:
Takeo Prime wrote:

-1

alliance mechanics are for those that want to hide under the skirts of others.  The "Now they won't mess with my 2 man corp because i am part of X alliance" would be a terrible path to take.  the game is too small for making a super group to dominate the board.

Make friends, run with them, leave them, go another direction or whatever you want to do.  you don't need hand holding mechanics to do that.

If alliance mechanics are the path of least resistance then strong corps will just fill their ranks with cannon fodder for all the <5 man corps and the blob will be the norm.  The game is finally shaping up into some nice pockets of strength and diversity.

Get 500 active members then take another look at it.

Aren't you in an alliance lol?

checking....nope, just a corp, called WAR that has made friends with another corp, that of which neither require any kind of formal friendship mechanics.

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Takeo Prime wrote:
Ville wrote:
Takeo Prime wrote:

-1

alliance mechanics are for those that want to hide under the skirts of others.  The "Now they won't mess with my 2 man corp because i am part of X alliance" would be a terrible path to take.  the game is too small for making a super group to dominate the board.

Make friends, run with them, leave them, go another direction or whatever you want to do.  you don't need hand holding mechanics to do that.

If alliance mechanics are the path of least resistance then strong corps will just fill their ranks with cannon fodder for all the <5 man corps and the blob will be the norm.  The game is finally shaping up into some nice pockets of strength and diversity.

Get 500 active members then take another look at it.

Aren't you in an alliance lol?

checking....nope, just a corp, called WAR that has made friends with another corp, that of which neither require any kind of formal friendship mechanics.


Right click, set Blue.  It's a Mechanic.

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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

+100500

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

telling that the game doesn't need any alliance mechanic and it would be bad, while beeing a member in one of the player made alliances, is a very strong argument!

Ville has a good argument - if you exagerate Takeos argument, beeing able to set color standings and displaying corp tags in landmarklist is very bad feature, because it enables blobbing without accidentally shooting friendlies


+1 removing any blob mechanic! +1 removing standing and landmark filters!

/cynical post

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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

What some players and certainly the dev team dont understand, is that you should NOT enforce one type of player grouping or another. You fear that a overwhelming force would appear and kill the server? Your completely wrong. Human civilization history show many examples of what im saying.


Once theres no more opposition and the "blob" is too big, it splits itself naturally. Theres always at least one ambitious minded near the top that wants to take a big crunch of the cake. Theres always dissentions, qui pro quo, misunderstandings etc, that WILL split the blob. Just let some time. What you devs did is try so much to avoid by any mean too big coalitions of players, that in fact you INCREASED the will to stay together and crush the whole thing.

Stop being hypocritical guys.  Everyone agree, we all liked the big battles, in everyone mind its the best moments in game they experienced (and other fun things too im synthetizing). Do i have to necro the threads for you to see all the "wow great guys, so much fun, we won/lose but hey, we got a very nice time". So most of us like this, but you cant stand theres only two big oppositions with so low population?? We dont want it to be horde vs alliance, we want more complicated politics and we surely can have it. But FOR NOW, with not many peoples, just try to enjoy some kind of endgame we all like, no? Once the pop improve, new STRONG entities will emerge.  When there was the "so called" griefing on some beta island from the SovNov, it was a desperate call to gather everyone else and come and *** us. But you didnt. You prefered some ridiculous way to destroy the Sovnov.  Gratz.  Now enjoy your 3v3 lightbot pew pew with the lolpirates.

And may i add, Devs your frankly in the wrong direction with your way of handling "the blob case". Let it die from its own fatness. There will always be at least 2 sides, its common sense.
Maybe im just telling a big bunch of BS, its just my own feeling about all this.

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Problem is, mr. Cobalt, that ppl aren't going to pay and wait till such big blobs will die, split, etc.

Have a productive day, runner!
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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

To set things straight, I don't think we ever stated that we don't want alliance features. Back in June Gremrod asked me to tell him a topic they could discuss in the podcast, and I said we would be interested what our players would expect from an alliance/conglomerate feature.

The result was that the majority of our players thought that an alliance feature would be premature or even unnecessary at that point.

Link: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … iscussion/

Has the general consensus changed? Would alliances make a better game right now?

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

it would have already back then when the question was asked...

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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

DEV Zoom wrote:

To set things straight, I don't think we ever stated that we don't want alliance features. Back in June Gremrod asked me to tell him a topic they could discuss in the podcast, and I said we would be interested what our players would expect from an alliance/conglomerate feature.

The result was that the majority of our players thought that an alliance feature would be premature or even unnecessary at that point.

Link: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … iscussion/

Has the general consensus changed? Would alliances make a better game right now?

This question rest more to you Dev Zoom, Do you as a Developer want to see more alliances holding Beta Islands or Just enough corps holding the number of active outposts per island?  I.E. Alliance of 2 corps olding a Beta-2 island and an alliance of 3 olding a Beta-1 island.

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Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

DEV Zoom wrote:

Has the general consensus changed? Would alliances make a better game right now?

the general consens also was that instead we want more corp features, while the only thing we got regarding that was internal market orders, which almost silenced the calls for more corp storage rights, and we got a corp production log.

i still cannot see my corpmates on map like squadmates, nor can i see where they are (which island).
i still cannot organize corp funds or splitting my corp in task force groups (squad is occupied for alliances and first missing feature)
i still cannot set all corp members on green standing.

*new* even if i would own two outposts on same island, i cannot say "group 1 gets outpost buff 1, and group 2 gets outpost buff 2" -> i have to split corp into two corps, but missing alliance feature prevents me from doing so...

... back in terraria, building my glass-castle with lava moat...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

DEV Zoom wrote:

To set things straight, I don't think we ever stated that we don't want alliance features. Back in June Gremrod asked me to tell him a topic they could discuss in the podcast, and I said we would be interested what our players would expect from an alliance/conglomerate feature.

The result was that the majority of our players thought that an alliance feature would be premature or even unnecessary at that point.

Link: http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … iscussion/

Has the general consensus changed? Would alliances make a better game right now?

as othe rplayers have pointed out with intrusion 2.0:
yes it would make it a better game. the "used" beta outposts are a living place for mostly not only one corp. so it would be very usefull to have the auras not only for the holding but also for the corps that also "defend" that outpost. so yes alliance features would make it a better game. just to point out a single reason.

i could go on quite a while.. but i think thats unnesesary.

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Personally I think alliance features would be a positive thing, a lot of the talk in the previous thread was about not encouraging particular behaviours, but it doesn't work like that, players form alliances anyway, all that happens is they get annoyed that the mechanics make managing an alliance such a pain in the ***.

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Also: someone promised to implement corporation features like projects or sorta WHERE ARE THEY?? >:3

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
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24 (edited by Arga 2011-12-22 19:21:29)

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

How involved should the game mechanics be in the alliance system?

Just looking at the most simple thing, like creating an alliance, how should that be done?

Unlike forming a corporation, which is done by 1 person, an alliance is by definition is 2 or more corporations coming together. Here you immeditatly start run into the first issue that will shape the rest of the system, does the Alliance become its own "Entity" or is just a description of a relationship between corporations.

If its just a description, then it can't convey any additional benefits, your basically just using this mechanic as a formal recognition that two or more corporations are allied and the extent of the game functionality is to set all alliance members to the same standing.

To get some sort of coordinated benefit, like aura's, then the Alliance needs to be it's own "Entity" so that it can "own" an outpost. And here is where the game mechanics get tricky. Assuming that corporations joining an alliance want to keep thier internal corp structure completely intact, what makes sense for creating a new entity?

I suspect it would need to be something like a 'guild charter' system, where (1) CEO activates an Alliance charter and atleast (1) other corporation has to sign it for the alliance to be created. But, with that part out of the way, there's still now the more immediate issue of who can join an alliance and more importantly who can remove corps from an alliance.

The first thing that pops to mind is, if the originator of the alliance becomes the alliance leader (with add/delete privledges) then its not so much an alliance as it is a single corp/ceo as leader with numerous followers. Alliances would probably form anyway with this, and continue until the inevitable happens, of the 'leader' unilatterally kicking an alliance member out (and by extension likely locking them out of an outpost and all their gear).

I think 'paper' alliances are OK, but any type of alliance 'entity' is so fraught with pitfalls and game mechanic complexities, that its better off as a player-moderated sandbox element.

Edit: some typos

25 (edited by Celebro 2011-12-22 20:17:42)

Re: When you give us normal Alliances???

Arga wrote:

I think 'paper' alliances are OK, but any type of alliance 'entity' is so fraught with pitfalls and game mechanic complexities, that its better off as a player-moderated sandbox element.

I don't see the pitfalls and complexities with alliances. CEO of corp A creates an alliance for a fee. Corp B,C,D join. Corp A CEO becomes alliance leader by default. Corp A Decides one day, to boot Corp D, Corp B and C are not happy with the decision they leave alliance and create new alliance together with corp D, Corp A looses out.

Being alliance leader does not mean you always have the upper hand.

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