What I would love to see is the internal corp markets moving data. "with prices excluded since they will vary widely from corp to corp.

This would make market demand research possible where with the open market on most items it is currently impossible.

Add another tab in the dropdown box called "internal" below the world dropdown that has the collated data from corps moving averages of the item.

Example, T2 Ldemob. It has no moving on open market and the prices vary widely, so its impossible to tell if there is demand for this item. If i want to make and sell them on open market i have no idea how long or at what price I should sell them for.

Alot of players that come to perp want to play the market and see where the demand is, with current market data thats impossible.

no i agree with you certain items are used more than others, what im saying is it would be nice to have the full market data on item moving instead of just a small piece of the market data "the open market data"

Internal market should be at least taxed normaly in every outpost you don't own.

If you own an outpost in beta, well no taxes or taxed according the stability ^^

No market taxes would promote market involvement, which is a good thing too, so I take it you're fine with removing taxes completely then?

You can still do that as the internal market will still be there. Your ore will only be shot back at you if you are currently selling to corp purely for tax reasons, and therefore will stop selling after this proposed change (even so, you should then be indifferent).

I wouldn't go that far, but the lack of corp tools makes communism the easiest way to manage a corp.

As I pointed out in PIE recruiting, we ran into so many clerical issues trying to actually run PIE as a company, that we basically gave up.

It worked 'OK' at the gathering level, putting up internal orders for materials, but how in this system to you compensate someone for making a tiered CT or for running 30 production lines?

Corps don't need internal markets, we need ERP/accounting tools, we're just using the internal market because that's all there is; and even then its ALOT of external tracking work.

Put up a poll how many Producers are currently in corporations and selling their products on internal market only because they dont have to pay taxes there an do it for "Profit".

There is so much talk about internal markets - i wonder how much there is at all? I only have contact with PvP corps that do their production for... well own use.

Can you somehow prove that there is a commercial corp internal market going on out there within those 300 active player? Actually i dont see any corp that would have someone "no, im selling this to the open market because they pay better", stop getting shot down if you want to ride your t4 fit mk2 bot"

Yes it can be done and it's rather simple.

Edit: Sorry forgot to add any explanation: You simply set an above the cost agreed profit for every item they produce. For that to work a NIC cost of the items/CTs has to be calculated.

two things i would like to see

a, Logistic NPC corp standing affecting those things you can raise with extensions (max orders, vat, fee)
b, corporation tax setting affecting internal market (not lowered by extension ofc)

My original proposal states that there is no real reason for lower tier items (ores, T1 items, even T2)  not to be on the open market. My proposed changes to the tax system would make it easier for newer players to operate in the market with a lesser disadvantage then they currently experience. Right now, they are basically clubbed to death at everything they try sell/produce as the market is near dead and every transaction costs them a fortune on top. They end up having to do nearly everything them self, just to get something that is competitive enough to sell and even then the question remains how long it will take to sell. 12% tax is still 7% after 5 levels of tax reduction. It is a substantial amount that is more then double and close to triple the amount some real industries hold as their profit margin!

I also made the argument that corporations shielding their production (and common ores) from the market is not necessarily the best way to go (certainly not for the game as a whole). But the tax system as it is, steers corporations this way as there is an instant advantage versus the open market which is highly visible on every transaction, the TAX.

Opening up by providing a cheaper market will give newer industrial players a sense of living in an active world where they can meaningfully contribute to on their own without having to mine for everything they make them self. They might just stick around longer and have a positive effect that way on the player base as a whole, which is good.

Then there is that markets create competition and with it relevant/accurate prices based on the actual supply and demand of the time, which will make shortages less of an issue. You rather mine/produce something that has more demand if it gives you more bang for the buck, don't you? Well I sure do and the prices right now seem totally arbitrary as  a shortage of ore A does nearly nothing to the price for a very long time. So miners either mine deliberately at a loss to them selfs in order to service their own corporation or they add to the pile of overpriced ore due to lack of internal competition just to earn more. The later having the effect it really does not help output at all as it is not the bottleneck that needs to be solved. That is what artificial habit based pricing does to a system, corporation internal or otherwise!

Either way is not healthy if you'd ask me!

Also to consider that corporations/producers outsourcing lower tiers of production should be advantageous as they do not have to "waste" production lines which they can perfectly well use for the higher tier items or to manage a more versatile set of production lines! This should compensate for the lesser production efficiency of newer industrialist producing lower tier items.

But for all the mechanics to work, it is important to have common ore supplies and low tiered items to be traded openly as that is what everything is made off. It all starts at the bottom after all and some decent priced buy orders for T1 or T2 modules can go a long way to get things going. It won't happen overnight, but I am sure eventually it will and TAX reduction will help. Right now, I do not see much out there that incentives new players that want to go into production to actually go for it...and that is bad!

And I think we all agree we need more players and things will get better when we get there. I say changing the TAX system is a good way to start, even if it is just a very tiny first step! Helping to retain more players that try out this game with a fairer playing field and actual market incentives to participate in production chains can only be good.

The more obvious reason is that a lot of trade simply has been diverted to internal markets. Markets which in many situations will not be functioning properly either due to lack of volume. Now we can argue on how this came to be and all that, but one reason for sure is the evasion of TAX. So a good solution to start is to undo that imbalance!

Reversing past mistakes opens the way for players to adopt in the other direction. Right now it even is hard to sell something that is cheap and you know there is demand for. Simply because few use the open market anymore, all is invested in the corporation markets (with all problems that follow from that).

If that is your statement, you don't mind change then

Crap is you opinion, but you just sound resentful that way and it makes me wonder if you even have an idea what the right direction is. What will keep people "stick" with this game according to you?

Do you have any rationale why a 12% tax is good to start with?
Do you have any rationale why using market facilities in a public terminal, for corporation use, should be exempt from tax that is otherwise applied?

Saying it is all crap and moving in the wrong direction is just not going to cut it as an argument!