Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

AeonThePiglet wrote:

It's annoying and expensive to fight them, so I avoid them instead. Their range is too long to damp them, the respawn is too quick to nail them and hit the juicy mobs, and the time spent playing footsie could be better used fighting bots that don't jam so damn much.

Honestly it'd be nice if ewar resist increased each time it succeeded against you up to some max cap. That way you wouldn't get stuck in an endless loop of boring sitting about. Happens in pvp too, just as irritating there.

Honestly? I'd prefer we ditched the ECM mechanic entirely for ewar mods that lowered optimal and increased hit dispersion/guidance failure chance. Look at how damps work. If you succeed in getting a hit, lock time goes up and lock range goes down. You can counter it by getting closer and changing targets rarely. That's an on the field tactical counter. ECM is a bad mechanic because it doesn't have an on the field tactic that can minimize its effectiveness. It's very build wars; either you fit around it or you suffer from it. Blah.

ECM on its own is fairly balanced. Annoying, but not game breaking. The problem comes when it gets coupled with damps. A 20+ sec lock time with a couple ECM mods trained on you and your bot might as well not be on the field. Lame.

EVE all over again :-) ECM nerfs/changes each year.

From my POV, ECM should clear your primary target selection and/or shift your primary selection to a random target in your lock list.

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Since when is soloability a crime?

far as i know, new games cater to these type of players.

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Player ECM is fine as it is, the issue is NPC ECM which is pretty much because they don't have to manage cap and can just fire it off every time it cycles..

2 easy ways I can see to fix this..

1) I likes the ECM resistance thing. The more ECM you get hit with in a short period the less of an effect the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc have.. This allows the NPCs to ECM spam you and jam you occasionally without completely unbalancing it for players.

2) Increase the cycle time for NPCs by say 2 or 3 times..

(I guess 3 is reduce the amount on NPCs that use ECM, but that might make it too useless).

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Or you know... Devs could make NPCs have actual accu according to extension levels they've been given that isn't infinite, this would solve so many problems with NPCs in one swoop.

And yes I know it's not the easiest or most resource friendly approach, but it's the one that would solve most problems with NPCs in one go.

PS: Why do the Observers use normal bots since they're supposedly "Elite of the Elite", give them Mk2's! Yes, that would make them insanely overpowered in most cases, but they ARE supposed to be these big nasty Nians that don't take no for an answer...

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Ryoko Matsui wrote:

Or you know... Devs could make NPCs have actual accu according to extension levels they've been given that isn't infinite, this would solve so many problems with NPCs in one swoop.

And yes I know it's not the easiest or most resource friendly approach, but it's the one that would solve most problems with NPCs in one go.

PS: Why do the Observers use normal bots since they're supposedly "Elite of the Elite", give them Mk2's! Yes, that would make them insanely overpowered in most cases, but they ARE supposed to be these big nasty Nians that don't take no for an answer...


yes I dont understand this at all. The most uber mobs in game are soloable...

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Ryoko Matsui wrote:

Or you know... Devs could make NPCs have actual accu according to extension levels they've been given that isn't infinite, this would solve so many problems with NPCs in one swoop.

Guess its more to do with the complexity of coding an AI that can manage its cap.. Not impossible and im sure we will see it some time in the future.

Ryoko Matsui wrote:

PS: Why do the Observers use normal bots since they're supposedly "Elite of the Elite", give them Mk2's! Yes, that would make them insanely overpowered in most cases, but they ARE supposed to be these big nasty Nians that don't take no for an answer...

Or have them spawn with some friends (ie, a few assaults and some ECM bots that are chained to the observer)

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Hugh Jasol wrote:

Since when is soloability a crime?

far as i know, new games cater to these type of players.

newer games cater to the publisher return on investment. does not say it's good for the game, just for subscriber count.

solo content is ok but up to a point. after that things should be only doable in a group to promote corporation/squad play (for the multipleyer part in MMO).

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

NPCs do not have accumulator because its the most intensive calculation the server does - followed by LoS calculations.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Annihilator wrote:

NPCs do not have accumulator because its the most intensive calculation the server does - followed by LoS calculations.

this could be simulated by a random number of consecutive tries and a pause for "accumulator recovery". i.e. at the start of battle, and NPC rolls how many ECM tries it will do up to a maximum number, then a delay for ECM is put in and again it rolls a number of tries ...

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Isn' it like that now? The mobs don't do a constant every 10 second jam/demob anyways (at least the low levels). If they did I could never run away from some spawn smile

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

what bugs me most is that any kind of ewar effect lasts till end of cycle even if the originator was destroyed. i.e. sensor damps will finish cycling even if you destroyed the damping bot at the start of the cycle. similar with demob ...

this should be fixed ...

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

If I hit you with a fist, are you going to feel the pain only the moment I did that or will you have the aftertaste too? tongue

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Norrdec wrote:

If I hit you with a fist, are you going to feel the pain only the moment I did that or will you have the aftertaste too? tongue

wrong analogy. technicaly you start feeling pain a bit after the hit has landed. at the moment of impact, your body has not yet reacted to it. also pain builds up after the punch for a while then fades.

also the cycling of the modules is only there to make the server accumulator/effect calculations easier to implement. damps are a continuous effect. once off, there is no dampening going on.

39 (edited by Norrdec 2011-08-04 14:48:53)

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

I was talking about the also pain builds up after the punch for a while then fade part.

Ok how about this.

The demobs makes the parts heat up after it strikes and then you go slower. When it your parts cool down you are moving at max speed again. That example is from the description tongue

If you think they way you are thinking should I get my HP back after I kill the person who took it away? tongue

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

40 (edited by Xyberviri 2011-08-04 16:17:15)

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Annihilator wrote:

NPCs do not have accumulator because its the most intensive calculation the server does - followed by LoS calculations.


LoL, theres allot of times even that LoS calculation isn't accurate and NPCs hit me though trees/buildings/ground


Norrdec wrote:

Isn' it like that now? The mobs don't do a constant every 10 second jam/demob anyways (at least the low levels). If they did I could never run away from some spawn smile

Negative, i can say for fact because this happen to me on tuesday night.

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Hugh Jasol wrote:

Since when is soloability a crime?

far as i know, new games cater to these type of players.

Have any sandbox ones you know of? I'm not invested here enough to call it loyalty yet and I refuse to blob up for PvE content that needs the repeat grind level kernals here require.

Re: Enough of the NPC ECM already!

Ioci wrote:
Hugh Jasol wrote:

Since when is soloability a crime?

far as i know, new games cater to these type of players.

Have any sandbox ones you know of? I'm not invested here enough to call it loyalty yet and I refuse to blob up for PvE content that needs the repeat grind level kernals here require.

Finding a friend =/= blobbing up.