Topic: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

1. I would like to see the second launch tube on my small launcher actually work.  Kind of bugs me to have a launcher, and only plink away with one missile at a time when it has two tubes on the mesh.

2. More launchers please...with more tubes!!!  OK, so this could be overpowered since a bot with say a small 6 tube launcher would raise allot of hell, especially the robots with launcher bonuses.  But after thinking I also had a thought about that one.

2.a. Individual tube reload rate - The idea is simple really, each tube would be treated as a separate slot in the weapon.  The rate of reload for the weapon would determine the time it takes to load one round into a launchers slot.  SO, after firing a volley and depleting the launchers ammo, the launcher will reload one shot at a time.  From then on the player can wait for it to completely reload.  Or the player can fire rounds as they are loaded.

Better launchers can also load multiple rounds at a time per cycle.  So say while a tier one launcher has to do it one by one.  A tier three could load two at a time.

3. Staggered Fire - Watching others use th medium launchers I have wondered about this, why all at once.  Should they not be fired in a more staggered mode?  Well unless the missiles are very heat resistant and have no chance of colliding with other missiles that are on a parallel track.

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

1. They should make missile animations make more sense. Small should be two missiles two missiles together twisting around. Mediums would be 4 missiles twirling around. This would be graphical of course but would solve why small launcher have two tubes and mediums have 4.

2. I don't really get this entire idea. It sounds rather like changing missile mechanics and starting again. It is one solution but I don't see the problem that the solution is for. Launchers are meant to be heavy but simple tech with the ammo being the complex part of the weapon.

3. You can shoot weapons with F1 through F8. Space is just an alpha strick. Each weapon still performs independently. There is no way to tell if you're alpha striking or staggered fire so there is no way to make an animation for each choice. If you want to stagger your fire then do so. It does have advantages.

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

Alexander wrote:

1. They should make missile animations make more sense. Small should be two missiles two missiles together twisting around. Mediums would be 4 missiles twirling around. This would be graphical of course but would solve why small launcher have two tubes and mediums have 4.

2. I don't really get this entire idea. It sounds rather like changing missile mechanics and starting again. It is one solution but I don't see the problem that the solution is for. Launchers are meant to be heavy but simple tech with the ammo being the complex part of the weapon.

3. You can shoot weapons with F1 through F8. Space is just an alpha strick. Each weapon still performs independently. There is no way to tell if you're alpha striking or staggered fire so there is no way to make an animation for each choice. If you want to stagger your fire then do so. It does have advantages.

1. I do agree on this one, it would make more sence and instead of loading "Missiles" you could always rename them Missile Packs so the ammo does not need to change nearly as much.

2. The idea was for larger launchers with a multiple missile system.  There is no REAL problem, but since this is a suggestions and ideas forum...it was an idea.  That being additional launchers that would not be destabilizing.  Well not unless you also allow dual and tri beam lasers, rapid fire EM cannons, and Vulcan style machine guns.  But I would still like to see more launcher designs and capabilities.

3. Staggered fire would be an animation effect.  So missiles would launch one by one instead of all at once.  It would have nothing to do with the actual weapon, instead just spreading out the launch effect.  TBH I never did like the "anime" style missiles where they all launched at once and were all weaving around in the pattern...nifty looking, sure...but still not really practical.

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

basicaly medium launchers look like 2 small ones glued together in a single chassis ... either make the medium ones 2 tube with larger tubes or make them actualy fire the missiles they have tubes for.

what would be cool is to launch missiles in an odd/even pattern on the launchers with each launcher being independent. that would solve 2 of the complaints. you'd have missiles launching from different tube each cycle and the staggered effect could be created by having different sub-cycles for each tube.

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

be carfull with what you ask for.

imho having several missile hiting and having the full damage applied only from the first one would could confuse more player, then seeing a missile always gettinf fired from the same tube of the launcher.

its already confusing for some to see missile hit them even after they got behind some cover.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

Annihilator wrote:

be carfull with what you ask for.

imho having several missile hiting and having the full damage applied only from the first one would could confuse more player, then seeing a missile always gettinf fired from the same tube of the launcher.

its already confusing for some to see missile hit them even after they got behind some cover.

well the missile hit is calculated at the time of firing, as if they were instant hit guns (lasers come to mind). it is confusing. it should give a guidance error in that case just like the usual guidance errors :-)

but I like the missiles following the target bot, makes for nice drawings at times :-)

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

the chance to hit is calculated at launch, but the damage dealt is applied when it hits. (exception: final blow is instant)

mix that up with missiles that hit you one after another not doing any damage. thats confusing.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

Annihilator wrote:

the chance to hit is calculated at launch, but the damage dealt is applied when it hits. (exception: final blow is instant)

mix that up with missiles that hit you one after another not doing any damage. thats confusing.

Depends on the application of damage.  If each tube, and the missile there in, has a potential damage, then each hit would of coarse take off a chunk of HP.

So say you have a four tube launcher, a missile pack for that launcher does 200 damage.  TO make it easier, client side (since server side it is just numbers any way) the UI shows each hit as applying 50hp of damage instead of one lump of 200.  That allows a staggered missile launch, but does not effect back end math.

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

yeah, but for a single voley from a gropho it would multiply the server load for damage calculation by a factor of 4! (differences between what the UI shows and what the Server does are BAD and starts spawning bug reports on forums because player start seeing things...)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

Annihilator wrote:

yeah, but for a single voley from a gropho it would multiply the server load for damage calculation by a factor of 4! (differences between what the UI shows and what the Server does are BAD and starts spawning bug reports on forums because player start seeing things...)


Not true, to the server the damage would be the total damage applied to the opposing target, not the individual damage of the missiles.  The division of the damage would be a client side effect of the launcher.  So the server would have nothing to do with it.

Really, all the server would need to say is how much damage was done and if there were any misses out of the total missiles the launcher can fire.  That is about it...

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

SyberSmoke wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

yeah, but for a single voley from a gropho it would multiply the server load for damage calculation by a factor of 4! (differences between what the UI shows and what the Server does are BAD and starts spawning bug reports on forums because player start seeing things...)


Not true, to the server the damage would be the total damage applied to the opposing target, not the individual damage of the missiles.  The division of the damage would be a client side effect of the launcher.  So the server would have nothing to do with it.

Really, all the server would need to say is how much damage was done and if there were any misses out of the total missiles the launcher can fire.  That is about it...

if you however work on a per launcher basis in server calculations, weird effects will show up:

1. all missiles from one launcher will always exhibit a guidance failure
2. 4 missiles are fired but only one taken from cargo to reload
3. client cannot randomise the launcher animations in advance, since hit is calculated when it lands while LOS when firing

I'm with Annihilator on this one. The only viable way is to pick a random tube in the launcher to fire the next missile. Or redesign launchers to be single tubed ...

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

I might be missing what you want here, but all the tubes on the launchers fire a missile. On the small launcher the top tube fires the first missile, when it comes to fire the next one it uses the lower tube. Same for the medium launcher start top left and works around to the last tube. Zoom in and watch the animation.

There's probably some explanation somewhere why it works like this, i like to think its due to how fast it can cycle a missile into the tube smaller launchers can load missiles faster than the medium so it only needs 2 tubes, where as the medium are slower and need 4 tubes as they load the missiles into the launcher slower.

Re: More Launchers + Functional Launch Tubes

1. all missiles from one launcher will always exhibit a guidance failure
- Your making an assumption that a statistical variable can not be placed with in the math to allow for the 10% failure chance.  As I said before your only worried about the total damage, to get a random number from four values, and then see if there was a fail or not is not that difficult.  Shoot, I do it all the time...with DICE!  And a computer is way faster then a percentile roll.

2. 4 missiles are fired but only one taken from cargo to reload
- Already covered this, changing ammo from the singular: Missile.  To the plural: Missile Pack.  Would fix this issue since any amount of missiles can be in a pack.

3. client cannot randomise the launcher animations in advance, since hit is calculated when it lands while LOS when firing.
- Your making an assumption about the time frame of an effect.  Given the simple truth that all the mat is probably done with in one, may be two cycles, AND that your operating with a latency of 50ms...I have 200ms by the way.  There really is plenty of time.  I was in a team that was looking to do Terrain Deformation based on an impact...they were all worried about it eating to much time on the hit.  They forgot that the particle occlusion from the hit would last a few seconds, more then enough to make the calculations with in a few frames.  This math is far simpler.

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As for the tubes, never really saw the alternating effect.  In fact when the medium launchers have always fired I have typically seen four missiles launch with one occasionally fly into the sky.  Interesting thing to look for next time I am on thought.