1 Topic by Red Ketchup (edited by Red Ketchup 2011-06-15 12:00:43)

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Topic: A collection of features and ideas.

Hello devs and fellow agents,

Here is a list of features or modifications we have been compiling for a little while inside the corp. Those are annoyances or nice to haves that our agents have noted:

  • Highlight own buy/sell orders in the market range view on the market.

  • Review the highway system / general layout of Alsbale island: Yes, we know the grass is always greener on the neighbor's side but this is blatant.

  • Missions.
      Add a dynamic difficulty setting that adjusts to the number of agents in a squad. Would make group missions interesting: Go on a mission alone and get n mobs. Go at it in a group of five and get 5*n mobs or something along these lines.

  • Agriculture: Align other plants management on the noralgis model: plantable wherever the soil will allow.

  • GreenHouses: Deployable structures for planting and harvesting plants. Allow for it to be breakable by other player but should still offer some kind of risk reward to the enterprising botanist. Maybe with some defense modules. We are talking about a code-protected field-deployable enclosure inside of which plants could be grown and harvested.

  • Revisit the Production UI. It's just not made for cooperative production. (sharing production tasks). Something that allows the production manager of a corp to dispatch jobs, make commodities available to prodders, etc.

  • Mining could use a little spicing up. Some suggest explosive gas pockets inside the mineral veins, mother lodes, excavation sites to get to deeper veins, etc.

  • Boardable containers that can be put inside transport bots. Would greatly help transporting other pilots assets and keep cargo separated.

  • Add a container navigation system with back and forward button when navigating nested hangars and containers for the corp hangars. We hear a lot of complaints about having 10 windows open.

and last but not least: A massive cargo capable bot. The point has been made that at this stage, the needs for next level logistics and production brought on by the advancement of EPs and the organization of corps demands a larger robot capable of transporting larger amounts of material than a small lithus can. some have suggested a type of jawa sandcrawler (in starwars) type of bot. Some kind of massive mobile hangar with around 1500u of cargo or something similar.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Red Ketchup wrote:

Hello devs and fellow agents,

Here is a list of features or modifications we have been compiling for a little while inside the corp. Those are annoyances or nice to haves that our agents have noted:

-Highlight own buy/sell orders in the market range view on the market.
-Review the highway system / general layout of Alsbale island: Yes, we know the grass is always greener on the neighbor's side but this is blatant.
-Missions.
  Add a dynamic difficulty setting that adjusts to the number of agents in a squad. Would make group missions interesting: Go on a mission alone and get n mobs. Go at it in a group of five and get 5*n mobs or something along these lines.
-Agriculture: Align other plants management on the noralgis model: plantable wherever the soil will allow.
-GreenHouses: Deployable structures for planting and harvesting plants. Allow for it to be breakable by other player but should still offer some kind of risk reward to the enterprising botanist. Maybe with some defense modules. We are talking about a code-protected field-deployable enclosure inside of which plants could be grown and harvested.
-Revisit the Production UI. It's just not made for cooperative production. (sharing production tasks). Something that allows the production manager of a corp to dispatch jobs, make commodities available to prodders, etc.
-Mining could use a little spicing up. Some suggest explosive gas pockets inside the mineral veins, mother lodes, excavation sites to get to deeper veins, etc.
-Boardable containers that can be put inside transport bots. Would greatly help transporting other pilots assets and keep cargo separated.
-Add a container navigation system with back and forward button when navigating nested hangars and containers for the corp hangars. We hear a lot of complaints about having 10 windows open.

and last but not least: A massive cargo capable bot. The point has been made that at this stage, the needs for next level logistics and production brought on by the advancement of EPs and the organization of corps demands a larger robot capable of transporting larger amounts of material than a small lithus can. some have suggested a type of jawa sandcrawler (in starwars) type of bot. Some kind of massive mobile hangar with around 1500u of cargo or something similar.

I remember hearing at one time that the current engine is limited to putting bots in a single tile so making anything bigger then a lithus would just have to grow upwards... may end up looking more like the leaning tower of pepperoni pizza wink

Not sure if this holds true, but this may be why you haven't seen bigger bots yet and may be a factor in what's holding up destroyers?

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

GLiMPSE wrote:

I remember hearing at one time that the current engine is limited to putting bots in a single tile so making anything bigger then a lithus would just have to grow upwards... may end up looking more like the leaning tower of pepperoni pizza wink

Not sure if this holds true, but this may be why you haven't seen bigger bots yet and may be a factor in what's holding up destroyers?

Time to open up the hood and start modifying the game engine then /devs run in fear...

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Seriously... It took us about 3000u to transport 2 corps worth of gear yesterday. Took us about an hour. Bigger transport is not necessary.

Mining should not require any more concentration that it currently does. I enjoy being able to enjoy it and not have to worry about random factors like NPC spawns while I'm on the john.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

3000U is about the minimum we have to move every day just to keep up with production. I understand smaller alpha corps can manage with a few lithuses (not forgetting to factor in the escort pilots guarding the convoys) but SERIOUSLY come back to this post when you know what you're talking about: Larger transports are necessary.

As for mining afk, not everyone likes it. Some player actually do enjoy the activity of mining but would like it even more if some more risks and rewards were added to spice things up once in a while. One should consider the whole player base when designing a game... not just the alts of some pvpers imho.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

I suppose I could have worded my first statement differently. ohwell.

My second statement was coming from a collective opinion that I've heard over vent numerous times. We don't AFK mine, but I sure as hell don't want to have to spend 30 minutes figuring out fits for a mining op because there's an obscure chance of a gas cloud destroying my termis or that riveler next to me.

7 Reply by Arga (edited by Arga 2011-06-13 20:13:10)

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Red Ketchup wrote:

As for mining afk, not everyone likes it. Some player actually do enjoy the activity of mining but would like it even more if some more risks and rewards were added to spice things up once in a while.

I've worked really hard to save the EP and NIC up to get into a Riv. MK II with T4 hardware, 70M NIC investment as well as the time and effort to chase down the items which aren't immeditatly available for replacement on the market.

Even on alpha I accept a certain level of risk, roaming NPC's and artifact scanners spawning GO's or infestations in the area, but it's reasonably small; just yesterday a Mech was spawned between me and the outpost which wasn't while I was mining, but if I had just blindly motored to the outpost at my speedy 58kph, I would have been replacing the rig so it happens. Lets say its 1 in 100 chance on alpha.

If your spicing makes it 1 in 10, that's not an acceptable risk for 70M NIC worth of equipment unless you increase the reward 10 fold to compensate for the additional risk. Sure, I could roll out in 10M NIC Termis, but why work to improve my character and equipment if I can't use it, or the risk to use it outweighs the benefit?

I don't AFK mine, 1 reason being I can't because I empty tiles too quickly and my cargo fills too fast. The other being I have too much NIC out in the field. If you want to spice it up by adding in something without risk, but adds to the complexity, that's OK.

When I want risk, I go mine Epitron. Edit: but not in a Riv MK II.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

First - please use the LIST feature of the board. that post is almost unreadable wall-of-text

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Highlight own buy/sell orders in the market range view on the market.

agreed. that could be expanded to "mark own/corpmates buy/sell order on public market"

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Review the highway system / general layout of Alsbale island: Yes, we know the grass is always greener on the neighbor's side but this is blatant.

The DEVs already stated that they probably will expand the highway network after they have analyzed the impact of on balance/gameplay

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Missions.
  Add a dynamic difficulty setting that adjusts to the number of agents in a squad. Would make group missions interesting: Go on a mission alone and get n mobs. Go at it in a group of five and get 5*n mobs or something along these lines.

Mission revamp was already annonced with last blogpost. Agreed - hope squad missions will be expanded too

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Agriculture: Align other plants management on the noralgis model: plantable wherever the soil will allow.
-GreenHouses: Deployable structures for planting and harvesting plants. Allow for it to be breakable by other player but should still offer some kind of risk reward to the enterprising botanist. Maybe with some defense modules. We are talking about a code-protected field-deployable enclosure inside of which plants could be grown and harvested.

see my topic about POS implementations

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Revisit the Production UI. It's just not made for cooperative production. (sharing production tasks). Something that allows the production manager of a corp to dispatch jobs, make commodities available to prodders, etc.

if someone is "production manager" he should see all production lines of the corpmembers at any factorywindow.

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Mining could use a little spicing up. Some suggest explosive gas pockets inside the mineral veins, mother lodes, excavation sites to get to deeper veins, etc.

Mining on new Alpha islands will spice up enough when the roaming npcs are inmplemented on those

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Boardable containers that can be put inside transport bots. Would greatly help transporting other pilots assets and keep cargo separated.

like a hauling bot that has only a small own cargo, but an accessible container attached to it?

Red Ketchup wrote:

-Add a container navigation system with back and forward button when navigating nested hangars and containers for the corp hangars. We hear a lot of complaints about having 10 windows open.

and last but not least: A massive cargo capable bot. The point has been made that at this stage, the needs for next level logistics and production brought on by the advancement of EPs and the organization of corps demands a larger robot capable of transporting larger amounts of material than a small lithus can. some have suggested a type of jawa sandcrawler (in starwars) type of bot. Some kind of massive mobile hangar with around 1500u of cargo or something similar.

it was already mentioned, the next bigger hauler would need a bigger mesh then the game engine currently supports (IK and collison detection)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

9 Reply by Nat4raya (edited by Nat4raya 2011-06-14 15:10:34)

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

The one i agree the most, and happilly its the ability to see others factorys windows; from own and coprplayers its ok, very useful.
Spicy minery no ty, advanced minery its not the same as mining in a roughlly stable Temis and alrdy quite atention demanding as pointed before.
More harvesting sure, iirc there was a new plant incoming too. What it will be used for?

Edit: oh oh ,. i forgot cause i was at work, one thing i would rlly like its the hability to change the place of the diferent lines in the factory window and arrange them as i like better ,. , ty

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

I have a great idea that would benefit the community, F-Navy sharing their killboard coding so that we can get a few more rolling. tongue

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

As far as a cargo hauler goes, the addition of the Hmech Lithus was a huge boon. Not sure how many players were here for just the 80U runs...

I think it goes without saying that we will get larger haulers with the next set of mechs. Asking for more cargo now out of an Hmech is like asking for combat HMechs with 'just 2-3 more module slots'.

There are ways now to reduce your travel time, like using a couple of 300K NIC TP's, which if your traveling in a convoy are fairly cost & time effective. Another thing, would be if player contracts are implemented, so you can share the burden without incurring additional risk.

Last, and probably the least useful method is using the market. Put a sell order at X and a buy order X+ at the destination.

Although I think there is a psychological factor players have for paying to move cargo. They'll spend 20M on a lithus and make 30 runs over 15 hours, then complain about transportation; but balk at 500K per load to have someone else do it. Granted, there is the issue of them not being able to directly deposit the loads, and needing to be in the outpost to xfer the load; would be nice to have that feature *hint again about contracts*

12 Reply by Red Ketchup (edited by Red Ketchup 2011-06-15 12:02:09)

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Arga wrote:

...

Although I think there is a psychological factor players have for paying to move cargo. They'll spend 20M on a lithus and make 30 runs over 15 hours, then complain about transportation; but balk at 500K per load to have someone else do it. Granted, there is the issue of them not being able to directly deposit the loads, and needing to be in the outpost to xfer the load; would be nice to have that feature *hint again about contracts*

I like contracts as well. We do use teleporters. Still want massive haulers: Lithuses just dont cut it. Besides who said it needed to be visually so big (right, i did...)?  Just make a one tile bot that looks like a beefy truck and set the cargo value to waaay up there. It's just pixels and integers after all.


Grim Faust wrote:

I have a great idea that would benefit the community, F-Navy sharing their killboard coding so that we can get a few more rolling.

It's my only bargaining chip with Gargaj smile No API, no open Killboard. Simple reasoning behind this really is that i don't want put any more work in it (like cleaning the messy code in it) before we get the tools to really let it fly and create the app we want, community-wise.

Annihilator wrote:

1.see my topic about POS implementations
2.if someone is "production manager" he should see all production lines of the corpmembers at any factorywindow.
3. like a hauling bot that has only a small own cargo, but an accessible container attached to it?

1. good post i had not seen it.
2. Seeing production lines somehow feels like it's lacking something. Some sort of of job orders in a queue for proders and protoers to pick up so they dont have slack would be nice as well. Kindof like the waiter just pinning the orders on the kitchen board of a restaurant. Gives anyone in the back something to work on after what they are finishing up. We do it externally atm: pita.
3. That's not how I saw it but i like this idea. Was thinking of a can (with modules in it ) you can put in a bot. Like in Steve.



And also, the mining spicing up idea came from industrial guys from our corp. As I state in the title, this is a collection of ideas from my corp an I may or may not endorse them personally. I do realize it's already a stressfull job mining in dangerous zones as it is. Ask nat4raya, he's an expert  wink

Bonus for Anihilator and sake of readability: this thread now with moar lists.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Red - In some cases, game play takes priority over 'lore' and physics, but in this case, although the game would (will) benefit from larger cargo bots it's not broken with the lack of one. I'm positive that there is a hauler bot out there for us to find, it's just not wasted on these smaller out-lying Islands.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Yeeessss...  must. find. more. energon.  and the cube of course.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

We definitely need bigger haulers in-game. The Lithus doesn't cut it anymore.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

"Our combat forces are underpowered, we need to recruit more players."

"Our production is underpowered, we can't move enough material, give us bigger bots."

I seem to sense a disparity in thinking.

If your putting 12 Rivelers out in the field, but only allowing 1 lithus for transport, then that's not a game problem. If 11 of those Rivelers are the same player, that's not a game problem either.

If hauling is a bottleneck, then recruit more haulers.

There will always be something in the chain that slows down production, which is part of the game design.

17 Reply by AgY

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Arga wrote:

"Our combat forces are underpowered, we need to recruit more players."

"Our production is underpowered, we can't move enough material, give us bigger bots."

I seem to sense a disparity in thinking.

If your putting 12 Rivelers out in the field, but only allowing 1 lithus for transport, then that's not a game problem. If 11 of those Rivelers are the same player, that's not a game problem either.

If hauling is a bottleneck, then recruit more haulers.

There will always be something in the chain that slows down production, which is part of the game design.


What you dont understand is that thats exactly what *we* are doing.
I guess you missed our 12 lithus that hauled stuff for several hours... and it IS a game problem.

18 Reply by Arga (edited by Arga 2011-06-16 18:32:15)

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Lets say that tomorrow, we discover the Mega-Mover with 960U of cargo (4*sequar = Lithus*4 = Mega-Mover). Hmm, but it takes Indy 10 to drive it ... only 130,000 EP from indy 8 to 10.

Even at 960U, if your moving 5000U per day, now your down to only 1 or maybe 2 drivers, and it's still going to take hours to do it - at least for a couple months.

If it does not take Indy 10, than this new robot makes the lithus obsolete.

Grinding kernels is boring, roaming without finding targets is boring, mining is boring... all these things are boring, why shouldn't logistics be boring too?

Edit: Replace "boring" with "Time consuming"

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

I think hauling is too easy.
In Eve things are cheap in Jita and prices increase the further away you go, hauler/traders earn a living moveing stuff. Here prices are the same everywhere in alpha space as hauling is too easy.
Scrap the Lithus and let low-EP people  make a living by hauling.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

Creating a market in game like stEVE with different prices could be tough to implement. The difference is its not harder in stEVE to travel its actually easier but has more of a time sink. Here its the other way round travel is tedious, more player interaction but takes less time. Removing the lithus will add to the same problems x 3.

Also you can see all market orders anywhere, maybe splitting into 2/3 sectors would add another dimension and promote a market niche.

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

agree, the "unlimited" range of the "markets in range" paired with the relatively short travel time and small world (the new islands have been placed inbetween the old ones, not further out) makes "trader" an obsolete profession.

AFAIK the eve universe is HUGE, with thouthands of systems, and comparing it with perpetuums 12 island (system) gameworld seems a bit akward to me

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Re: A collection of features and ideas.

I wasn't in Eve at launch, but I would expect that it took many expansions before that game had enough distance between outposts to make playing the haul for profit game profitable.

For now, I think being able to see everything is good. Its difficult enough to work the market, say to find Riveler MK II's now for sale in game, without having some type of book mark, or needing to have lots of units made and put one in each outpost.