Topic: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

I might be wrong on all counts, but as a newbie trying the 15 day trial, that's how I feel.

In short, the game has all its bases covered as a bare-bones system for a truly phenomenal game.  That bears repeating: it will eventually be a phenomenal game.  Right now Perpetuum is SO bare-bones it seems to have little to drive players to actually play.

I feel addressing these problems would go a long way:

  No story in a clearly interesting game world
The world looks amazing.  There is so much potential depth there just looking at the interesting structures.  There is a great backstory that anyone can read on this site.  It's a shame there is no lore, no storyline in the game itself.  It was one of the strong points of the original Mech-type games and kept me playing them for a long time.

  The game is getting LESS friendly to new players
They took out the 10 training missions.  I understand perhaps consolidating them a bit so it goes faster, or let people do several in parallel to speed it up.  But they are just gone now.  No way to get your Mk.2 Ankhe.  No way to get into a better light robot after the initial 10 missions.

  Speaking of speeding it up
People seem to turn to transport missions to make their fortune.  It seems to be universally agreed upon that they are mind-numbingly boring, but safe.  Additionally, the combat missions are slightly more fun, but they have more travel time than anything.  They end up being just like transport missions but with a higher risk of losing your bot.  Long, boring travel times is a bad idea, especially in conjunction with:

  The grind starts immediately (and lasts forever?)
You have to grind out the same assignments (literally the same) if you want to get a rep up.  It doesn't matter much anyway, as the other assignments are the same thing, with the details slightly different (different location, slightly different bots to kill, etc.)  I hear joining a Corp and running around doing things is more fun, but I also hear that doesn't really address most of the fundamental problems of the game.

  TL;DR
The game has a ton of potential.  Right now it is riddled with problems: No storyline, no incentive to play beyond the first couple weeks of wow-factor, not newbie friendly, the game is just one big grind.

If they put in a storyline, figured out how to make the game feel less of a grind, added in better long-range transport, added in newbie-friendly support, and threw in all sorts of fun incentives to play long term - and then advertised it well - the game would kick some serious bootay.  I look forward to checking back in on it in a couple years, for sure.

2 (edited by CrepitusGoldenGoose 2011-03-14 16:29:32)

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

I hope the devs are watching this.  For every person who takes the time to post there are probably 10 who just quit and never look back.  I have 3 paid accounts for 3 months each at the moment and I couldn't agree more with pretty much every point you made (been playing a little more than 2 weeks).

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

I'd like to respond to one specific part of your post, about the grind and missions.

I've always felt a bit weird that this is a sandbox game where players make their own fun, yet there is a mission system.  I too would like a storyline, but I think a mission system makes it less of a sandbox and more of a WoW in the future (to a very small extent, granted.)

I would support the removal of missions as they are now.  From what I can tell, you do missions for two reasons: to make money, and to increase relation.  I think relation as a component of refining/manufacturing efficiency is stupid, it doesn't make sense, and its a HUGE deterrent to potential manufacturers (myself).  Let extensions be the only factor in efficiency of production, and it becomes more attractive to industry-leaning players who don't want to be forced to grind ANYTHING for hours in order to be competitive (myself).

As far as making money, I still believe there needs to be a way for PvE play to produce money without involving industry.  Combat-focused characters not yet ready to head into PvP, or who just dislike PvP.  Already you can sell drops and kernels, but this isn't enough.  So, either add bounties on all NPCs (ala Eve), or increase the infinite buy orders for kernels dramatically. 

But grinding isn't fun either.  So when I go find a group of NPCs and kill them for their bounty and drops, how about an escalating storyline, spawned by a drop from one of the bots, or a distress call from an NPC agent, or something to get me to go to the next group of bots which were created as a result of my interactions.  This can culminate in a big event with great rewards.  All without a formal mission system or relation increases.  We can still have relation to a small extent, maybe we get a tip from an NPC corp that there is an artifact in this area, or a field of Imentium there, etc.  Something to work for maybe but not REQUIRED for anything.

Finally, we need player contracts bad.  I think there would be plenty of demand for player-created transport missions; maybe not between the three main stations, but that doesn't make sense anyway.  Players can pay NIC to have their valuable bots and goods moved to Beta; they are paying someone to take a risk, so the money is being truly earned.  Mining contracts, where instead of just placing a buy order, I hire a player to deliver X amount of ore by a certain date.  This would motivate miners to get out and do something, knowing they are getting a guaranteed return because it is a game mechanic, and maybe there is a bonus if they do it by a certain time.  As it is now, I can look at the market, see there is a demand for something, go mine it, and all the orders are filled and the price has dropped substantially.  Contracts could connect players, build relationships, maybe set up a standing order between players where miners are naturally supporting manufacturers who are supporting combat players, without necessarily using the market.

To me, that would make the sandbox much more fun and much more of a sandbox.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

Ral wrote:

*SNIP*

I agree with all of your ideas except the removal of the NPC missions, relation is a tedious grind and is clearly intended to be. 

Player contracts would be amazing.  We're already doing something similar in our corp paying people 1 mil nic per hour to crap around between stations, and it would be even better if extended beyond just transport to player bounty hunter contracts and whatnot as well. 

Obviously it should be generic npc items that have the same weight as the real items or something so you don't have griefers accepting missions just to destroy enemy corp goods.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

CrepitusGoldenGoose wrote:
Ral wrote:

*SNIP*

I agree with all of your ideas except the removal of the NPC missions, relation is a tedious grind and is clearly intended to be. 

Player contracts would be amazing.  We're already doing something similar in our corp paying people 1 mil nic per hour to crap around between stations, and it would be even better if extended beyond just transport to player bounty hunter contracts and whatnot as well. 

Obviously it should be generic npc items that have the same weight as the real items or something so you don't have griefers accepting missions just to destroy enemy corp goods.

I'm ok with relation being a tedious grind and paying off if you stick through it.  What I'm not ok with is it being required to access any area of the game.  So I'm an industrial character exclusively focused on mining, but I'd really like to get into producing.  But I'm unwilling to do transport missions or "the grind," so I can't ever be competitive in that space.  I can't even refine my own ore, even if I put every single EP I get into it.

That's why I want relation to play a much smaller role.  To step up to harder missions, sure, but to be competitive in the marketplace, no.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

Kvoth wrote:

In short, the game has all its bases covered as a bare-bones system for a truly phenomenal game.  That bears repeating: it will eventually be a phenomenal game.  Right now Perpetuum is SO bare-bones it seems to have little to drive players to actually play.

I feel addressing these problems would go a long way:



  No story in a clearly interesting game world
The Game needs more story line and some way to communicate that to the players, i agree on this point. perhaps like a popup consol that the the syndicate can use to communicate to the player.

  The game is getting LESS friendly to new players
Im not sure about this, the starting missions were still avalible for me having never dont them on one of my characters i just made the other day. i was able to get my Mk2 both as well as my starting bot.

  Speaking of speeding it up
I think the speed is alright, i hate how long it takes to travel for some missions but i think this preserves the game world. i have played many games were there was limited fast travel and this game by far does not have it as bad as some of the other ones.

  The grind starts immediately (and lasts forever?)
I agree with the new Training missions, i think all of them need the rep reward upped by +7 or 10 in some cases so that you only do the 3 missions from each group combat/logistics/industry and then you have the rep you need to start doing the real missions.

  TL;DR
I think allot of games out there are a big grind and really the skill is already done for you in this game but not the equipment, i think that this is really what players are grinding, the cash reward at low level seems though but on one character you have enough credits to insure your starter bot and progress in the game. i agree that at low level there needs to be some love to help get new players off on the right foot but i also agree that we dont need to over do anything.



BTW, I am also still on my 15 day trial and have decided to sub the game and purchased my 30 days so far.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

XyberViri wrote:

The game is getting LESS friendly to new players
Im not sure about this, the starting missions were still avalible for me having never dont them on one of my characters i just made the other day. i was able to get my Mk2 both as well as my starting bot.

It's possible I'm wrong.  I thought the patch they just put in took them out, and they added repeatable training missions instead.  Had a discussion about this in game and the consensus seemed to be they took them out.  Not sure, now.

XyberViri wrote:

  Speaking of speeding it up
I think the speed is alright, i hate how long it takes to travel for some missions but i think this preserves the game world. i have played many games were there was limited fast travel and this game by far does not have it as bad as some of the other ones.

I'd agree that preserving the game world integrity is super important (it really is a great world).  I'm not sure how to fix this.  The repetition is the real problem I think, and is being aggravated by the long travel.  More interesting, non grinding stuff to do would probably alleviate this, actually.


XyberViri wrote:

BTW, I am also still on my 15 day trial and have decided to sub the game and purchased my 30 days so far.

I am really tempted to try another month.  I keep having this itch to play, but once in the game I quickly lose steam.  I feel like I'd get destroyed in PvP, but combat missions are boringly repetitive, and grinding easier bots is a bit more profitable but also gets boring.

Tried a transport character on a 2nd trial account (don't want to spread out my EP on one account/two chars) since it's apparently the way to make money, but I got tired of running goods quickly, since there's basically no variation to it.

I want to play when I'm not in the world, maybe in small doses it's worth it.

Good discussion though guys, keep it up!

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/22290/#p22290

Apparently they are in game but have been renamed.  I'm going to go do them on my 3rd account now to see if they also give access to the level 1 missions.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

CrepitusAntiPettyPeople wrote:

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/22290/#p22290

Apparently they are in game but have been renamed.  I'm going to go do them on my 3rd account now to see if they also give access to the level 1 missions.

They haven't been renamed, nothing was done to them. It's just some players got confused with the new line of tutorial assignments and started crying wolf smile

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

DEV Zoom wrote:
CrepitusAntiPettyPeople wrote:

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/22290/#p22290

Apparently they are in game but have been renamed.  I'm going to go do them on my 3rd account now to see if they also give access to the level 1 missions.

They haven't been renamed, nothing was done to them. It's just some players got confused with the new line of tutorial assignments and started crying wolf smile

Half way true.  The relation nerf forcing people to start at lvl 0 and grind training missions before they can do anything is the part that really hurts.  I just verified this for myself by finishing all 10 renamed tutorial missions on my 3rd account.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

CrepitusAntiPettyPeople wrote:

Half way true.  The relation nerf forcing people to start at lvl 0 and grind training missions before they can do anything is the part that really hurts.  I just verified this for myself by finishing all 10 renamed tutorial missions on my 3rd account.

The old 10 tutorial assignments are called like "Truhold-Markson tutorial assignment / File #1" and they are still called like this.

The new beginner assignments (which have nothing to do with the old tutorial assignments above) are called "Truhold-Markson combat rookie assignment / File #1". (or industrial/logistics)

I'm sorry if I'm the one not getting something here, but what exactly has changed?

12 (edited by CrepitusAntiPettyPeople 2011-03-14 23:41:39)

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

DEV Zoom wrote:
CrepitusAntiPettyPeople wrote:

Half way true.  The relation nerf forcing people to start at lvl 0 and grind training missions before they can do anything is the part that really hurts.  I just verified this for myself by finishing all 10 renamed tutorial missions on my 3rd account.

The old 10 tutorial assignments are called like "Truhold-Markson tutorial assignment / File #1" and they are still called like this.

The new beginner assignments (which have nothing to do with the old tutorial assignments above) are called "Truhold-Markson combat rookie assignment / File #1". (or industrial/logistics)

I'm sorry if I'm the one not getting something here, but what exactly has changed?

You used to be able to start out doing level 1 assignments for all factions.  Now you have to grind your way up from lvl 0 doing "training".  As a result, new characters have it significantly harder than older ones.  I bought my 3rd account to run transport and mine with my 2nd account, after registering and paying for the account I found out I couldn't do anything.  I was wrong about the original tutorial assignments being removed, I didn't see them because they had been renamed as DEV Calvin pointed out (in the Q&A thread) but the relation nerf is still in effect.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

Confirming the names as DEV ZOOM has stated. Have been working on these off and on for a week or so. No changes.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

I did the tutorial assignments last night, got the arkhe mk2 after the second (?) one and a light bot after the last(10) one.
I then had to grind the training assignments until I got my relation up to 0.2.  That opened up the normal tier 1 assignments.
What a pain in the butt.

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

I started playing the game when the old tutorial system was in use. I found it really good. Compared to other MMOs it was relatively fast paced, the most pertinent information gets across and the player isn’t drowned in information. At the end of said tutorial, I knew how to play the game and had a large choice of missions ahead of me. As is were I considered it a strength in this game.

Considering how good it was I’m surprised that they tried to “improve” it.

I understand that they could be grinded for cash and the grave consequence of loosing the first light bot. Though now it seems that people are completely confused.

I want an autopilot so I can chat while I travel. http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -a-review/ THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

Kvoth wrote:

I might be wrong on all counts, but as a newbie trying the 15 day trial, that's how I feel.

...snip!

  No story in a clearly interesting game world
... snip!

  Speaking of speeding it up
...snip!

  The grind starts immediately (and lasts forever?)
...snip!

You put your finger on it. The first moments of the game feel like driving through the trafic to get to your pillow stuffing day job. I ranted on that as well when I joined.  http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/post/20383/#p20383

In a sandbox game, things such as traveling and grinding are a bit inevitable. It’s also impossible to write a novel quest line long enough for players that play for hours during several years.

These are all ugly truths that need not be thrown at a new player’s face on day one.

What we need to is a quest line long enough to be impossible to clear during the trial period (of the average gamer), that gives the new player a sense of evolution, a sort of goal. During said period he’ll settle in the community and find a corporation, acquire the impulsive syndrome of “I need the next shinier robot” and maybe even get a of blood in pvp.

As far as the traveling time is concerned, anything that could compress it, would have a significant impact on the rate at which money is earned and pvp is done. Basically the entire balance of the game would be upset.

I want an autopilot so I can chat while I travel. http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … -a-review/ THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

CrepitusGoldenGoose wrote:

I hope the devs are watching this.  For every person who takes the time to post there are probably 10 who just quit and never look back.  I have 3 paid accounts for 3 months each at the moment and I couldn't agree more with pretty much every point you made (been playing a little more than 2 weeks).

+1

Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

hmm i feel the storyline thing might be a half truth. The way I have seen things after reading the site like a year ago or whenever it was, We are here to get a foothold and secure the inital area ready for the tech to be put in place for us to get ready for the next phase, the transfer of energy.

As such i dont see how any storyline can be put in that wouldnt then need features to go along with that. something i see as more of a annual/6-month update feature with leaps in the plotline and feature associated with it being put in place.

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Re: Petpetuum will be amazing... in 2-5 years.

Steeldragonz wrote:

hmm i feel the storyline thing might be a half truth. The way I have seen things after reading the site like a year ago or whenever it was, We are here to get a foothold and secure the inital area ready for the tech to be put in place for us to get ready for the next phase, the transfer of energy.

As such i dont see how any storyline can be put in that wouldnt then need features to go along with that. something i see as more of a annual/6-month update feature with leaps in the plotline and feature associated with it being put in place.

I totally agree, we are here to exploit the energy and *** the landscape and the aliens who live here. Later as we start to take over more land and islands there can be a subplot forming of whatever the DEVS minds can come up with and our help. Who knows what other aliens in the galaxy might come to get energy too, heck maybe another human like people.

So as is, we are taking control of the land and fighting with aliens and the other corps who want all the glory, that is pretty much the story line, when they implement the energy back to home, that should set up some fighting between corps, energy storage and sending back home should be a major part of this game.

Speaking of the energy, where is this energy at and how do you get it stored to send home? Now that is a big question.

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Kciredor Nov --- Mining and Industry
Skao Nov --- PVP, when i get another account.