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Re: Insurance action

As far as the game logs go, it can lag the game to high hell, so Its obvious the devs could see/track the NIC generated and then remove it. all it takes is one exploiter to effect players associated with them. So some players could infact play the "im Innocent" card.

If this is you? then blame the idiots you associate your self with.

Like Glimpse I have never insured a bot, and none of my friends had insured a bot,. we have done ALOT of bot/NIC sharing and we lost nothing,.we had never be associated with any dirty NIC. 

It was 100% obvious there was an Insurance exploit,. I was surprised it took so long to address ,. I dont think the majority realize how much they may have generated so it was a shock to be wiped clean of NIC.

The Devs are kinda in the wrong for not stating sooner they would be swinging a ban hammer around..

The players involved should have known there is no such thing as a free lunch..

252 Reply by Campana (edited by Campana 2011-02-15 18:33:53)

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Re: Insurance action

DEV Zoom wrote:

We didn't remove any money not associated to the suspected frauds. The 0 NIC accounts some of you see are because those corporations simply didn't have enough money on their account to cover it all. In these cases we went on with the private accounts of those corporation members who have actually executed the frauds or were connected to them.

No you didn't. You removed Lupus money because you thought his account was one of Styx's. You told him that. And you (or Manx) refunded his money when you realised it was a different person.

Furthermore, you are making it up when you say you have taken NIC from those connected with blowing up the bots for insurance fraud.

You haven't taken any of my NIC. You have not taken any NIC from the members of M2S who blew up the most bots, you haven't checked that at all. You should have done that before you took NIC from Lupus again.

You have made a very unfair decision, and now you are just making excuses.

You cannot have a different rule for one person just because he has higher personal wealth than other members of the corp.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978
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Re: Insurance action

Campana wrote:

You removed Lupus money because you thought his account was one of Styx's. You told him that. And you (or Manx) refunded his money when you realised it was a different person.

No I didn't. I removed Lupus' money because of this:

DEV Zoom wrote:

It's actually not necessary to buy insurances yourself to be guilty, since insured robots can be freely given around by corporation members via the storages.

Unfortunately Mancs made the mistake of only checking your transaction logs, but not checking your robot losses, which shows 38 corp-insured Baphomets (31 of them destroyed during an overall timespan of 35 minutes - a fine performance if you ask me).

This has nothing to do with Styx.

Campana wrote:

You haven't taken any of my NIC.

It's nice of you to complain for that, but there is a very simple reason for it: at the time of the downtime you had only 200k NIC on your account.

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Re: Insurance action

DEV Zoom wrote:

It's nice of you to complain for that, but there is a very simple reason for it: at the time of the downtime you had only 200k NIC on your account.

So why didn't you remove it? It doesn't matter how much NIC is on the account, if there is any at all, it should be removed first from the people who blew up more bots.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978
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Re: Insurance action

Campana wrote:

So why didn't you remove it? It doesn't matter how much NIC is on the account, if there is any at all, it should be removed first from the people who blew up more bots.

And it was. By the time we would have gotten to you, corporate fraud amounts have already been covered. If you still think we set accounts to zero just like that, you should read back a bit.

256 Reply by Jita

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Re: Insurance action

DEV Zoom wrote:
Campana wrote:

So why didn't you remove it? It doesn't matter how much NIC is on the account, if there is any at all, it should be removed first from the people who blew up more bots.

And it was. By the time we would have gotten to you, corporate fraud amounts have already been covered. If you still think we set accounts to zero just like that, you should read back a bit.

Arguing with M2S and pets is like winning gold at the special Olympics. Even if you win your both still ***. Your laboring under the wrong assumption that you can talk sense into them or ever win any form of discussion. 9/10 times they know they are wrong and argue simply because its who they are.

Dont lower yourself.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Insurance action

Campana , are you suggesting that if one of you get some money via exploit and then give all that money to the corp and corp members then the dev's should not have any means to get that money back? Those of you who were involved in this buisness should solve this matter internally in your corp.

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Re: Insurance action

In the not so clever words of Glimpse: obvious insurance fraud is obvious bahahahaha

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Re: Insurance action

DEV Zoom wrote:
Campana wrote:

So why didn't you remove it? It doesn't matter how much NIC is on the account, if there is any at all, it should be removed first from the people who blew up more bots.

And it was. By the time we would have gotten to you, corporate fraud amounts have already been covered. If you still think we set accounts to zero just like that, you should read back a bit.

Hmm...pretty sure that people who blew up/were blown up in the most bots didn't lose anything. Like me, they would have only had small change in their accounts, if anything.

It looks like you targeted Lupus only because he had a higher personal fortune (made solely from mission running) not because he was more culpable. I disagree with this way of handling it.

I'm not going to post here any more. I think you've been pushed into publically defending an illogical decision and you can't back down now without making the situation worse, so any more discussion would be futile.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

260 Reply by Jariis (edited by Jariis 2011-02-15 19:53:21)

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Re: Insurance action

you should simply name all "incriminated corporations" or none. period

But I still wonder how the name of E=Mk2 have got into this news (for one guy who did it voluntarily). Could you have been misinterpreted all dOob's death from other corporation players as insurance scam ? tongue He is just our suicide bomber, and always ready to jump back in a bot (like each single one of us).

Otherwise ... I find the penalty too high, for a problem, you knew about (lol don't tell about it to other players ! how long do you think it take for someone to add up these numbers ? ) but you did not solve it. Your irl bank account  should be reduced of xxx month of salary I guess right ? tongue

It's quite bad in the current situation. The void only calls the void. I would prefer to see a lots of people on Perpetuum, but hey it's your daily income you are willing to bet here, not mine lol

ps: before some angry kids jump at me, I don't even know if I ve got less money as I cannot connect currently. I am not a industrial, and all the bot I have exploded have been exploded for pvp for my fun and not for my wallet. The only thing that could link me to this is about 10 kills of an Axe (no name ...) who was flagging non stop at ICS Alpha, but I have been bored before him tongue

261 Reply by Arga (edited by Arga 2011-02-15 19:54:21)

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Re: Insurance action

Isn't this always the case in financial issues, the money is never where you expect it.

It is obvious, to me at least, that the bulk of M2S fraud profits went back into buying mats for more bots to blow up. ~1600 Sequars worth that is publicly visable.

Edit: I would suggest M2S give Lupis the profits from selling these bots and call it even.

262 Reply by Warhawkz (edited by Warhawkz 2011-02-15 20:31:22)

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Re: Insurance action

Does the general public who has had nothing to do with the fraud,get any kind of compensation for this mess we are all in?

The mayority of the community has been punished in all of this too!
and still is..

*Warhawkz is not responsible for wasted time while reading his posts.

263 Reply by Gremrod (edited by Gremrod 2011-02-15 20:48:37)

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Re: Insurance action

Warhawkz wrote:

Does the general public who has had nothing to do with the fraud,get any kind of compensation for this mess we are all in?

The mayority of the community has been punished in all of this too!
and still is..

Explain a little more on how the general public should or why they should get some compensation.

Poeple that got nic from selling commodities to buy orders that were supplied by insurance fraud nic should get there nic taken too?

I know that people that buy stolen property in RL get busted for buying stolen goods even if they had no idea those goods were stolen.

Since insurance fraud is illegal in RL and now has been deemed illegal in Perpetuum then those that made nic by selling communities to buy orders that were supplied by insurance fraud should get their wallets wiped.

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23
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Re: Insurance action

Thats the reason why normally such exploiting behaviour results in an instant and permanent ban.

Its not enough to exploit the game, but also countless gibberish argumentations follow.

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Re: Insurance action

Gremrod wrote:
Warhawkz wrote:

Does the general public who has had nothing to do with the fraud,get any kind of compensation for this mess we are all in?

The mayority of the community has been punished in all of this too!
and still is..

Explain a little more on how the general public should or why they should get some compensation.

Poeple that got nic from selling commodities to buy orders that were supplied by insurance fraud nic should get there nic taken too?

I know that people that buy stolen property in RL get busted for buying stolen goods even if they had no idea those goods were stolen.

Since insurance fraud is illegal in RL and now has been deemed illegal in Perpetuum then those that made nic by selling communities to buy orders that were supplied by insurance fraud should get their wallets wiped.

A:we lose bots without insurance and wallets are drained that way.
B:If you are smart,and dont use the bot untill things are fixed ,you lose gametime.

*Warhawkz is not responsible for wasted time while reading his posts.

266 Reply by Arga

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Re: Insurance action

Dromsex wrote:

Its not enough to exploit the game, but also countless gibberish argumentations follow.

This is signiture quality material. smile

267 Reply by Draz

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Re: Insurance action

Jita wrote:

Arguing with M2S and pets is like winning gold at the special Olympics. Even if you win your both still ***.

Jita calls Dev Zoom a *** ITT.

Reactor......ONLINE
Sensors......ONLINE
Weapons......ONLINE
All systems nominal.
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Re: Insurance action

Shouldn't the self-proclaimed best of the best just suck it up that they got caught, instead of trying to bang their 4 braincells together to beat Devs at logic forum wars? I mean seriously guys, what do you expect to happen here? A public apology from Devs for daring to question your leetness?

And if you blow up 30 bots in 30 minutes and say you don't have any idea why your nic was removed then you are either lying or a serious dumbass. You pick. Guilty by association sure is a *** wink

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Re: Insurance action

Alright I think pretty much everything has been already said by both sides and we're only running in circles now. If anyone still has any issues regarding this matter he is kindly asked to contact support@perpetuum-online.com.