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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

Yeah works for me because I can afford to use stupid expensive masking/detection modules...

Considering one can earn many millions in beta I would say the module is stupid cheap.  wink

the topic started with the concern for non-Beta-islands-inhabiters having even less chance to leave Alpha islands with this change. They have to get those modules FIRST, before they can make the *** of money.

the alternative is: join the blob/NAP factions.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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27 Reply by Xini Nemesis (edited by Xini Nemesis 2011-02-07 13:17:53)

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

I think its just the old problem of not enough landmass and not enough ways onto the beta islands.  Its fair enough that an alliance can take over an area and control it,  but there needs to be some free areas available for smaller guilds / soloists to do so as well.  The small size of the beta islands prevents this and its compounded by limited access points.

What we need is **many** additional  smaller islands with resources.

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Annihilator wrote:

the topic started with the concern for non-Beta-islands-inhabiters having even less chance to leave Alpha islands with this change.

And the author of the topic came back one post later admitting to having a solution to his "concern".


Annihilator wrote:

They have to get those modules FIRST, before they can make the *** of money.

Isn't that the case with anything you do PvE?
-Before you do higher level missions you have to get better gear FIRST (even on alpha)
-Before you kill the bigger spawns you have to get better gear FIRST (even on alpha)


Again the author of the poast said he has a solution and no-one will ever get him... so this is a non-issue.

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Xini Nemesis wrote:

What we need is **many** additional  smaller islands with resources.


Do you really think stretching out the already thin player base even further is what this game needs?

30 Reply by Seridur (edited by Seridur 2011-02-07 18:11:52)

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Bastian Croft wrote:

Do you really think stretching out the already thin player base even further is what this game needs?

It's getting thinner because players are getting bored -because the current land setup and alliance system makes pvp too predictable thus boring.


And the subscriptions have not run out yet, so the potential players are still here. The question is wether they will renew their sbus.
I believe we need at least 3 times more land we have now. what does it matter if the playerbase is  " stretched out"? at least there would be more meaning of roaming and small squad pvp-s. right now it's just getting a report from a scout, and either all docks up or assemble a megablob- it's not fun with some rare exceptions

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

I actually do think this game needs more landmass by far than it has.  I liken it to a goldfish bowl, keep the bowl small and the fish stay small and few in number.  Suddenly put those fish in a large tank and they will grow larger and more numerous because there is more opportunity to do so.

The small landmass available in beta can arguably be blamed for inihibiting the growth of this game by stifling opportunity for new would-be beta corps that want to carve out something new and different from the existing alliances.  In any case you lose nothing by adding more territory, the best territory will always be claimed by the strongest corps, and if there is too much land it will just sit dormant until the population increases enough to make use of it.

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

In these types of pvp games you ***MUST***  have the PvE content as well, it all feeds each other.  Rock, paper, Scissors again but with PvE, Crafting and PvP.

The fish tank analogy is actually quite a good one.  Just think if you were a Goldfish would you rather jump into a small tank filled with Piranna's or a swimming pool with the same number in?

33 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2011-02-07 19:47:02)

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

depends on the size of the fish... piranha size starts from fishtank 5cm average, to 30cm

and if its day or night (they are inactive at nights) and how much they got to eat.

to complete the analogy: walking careless onto hokko without masking is like jumping into a bathtub with the hungry 30cm piranhas (infestation) at daytime.

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Annihilator wrote:

walking careless onto hokko without masking is like jumping into a bathtub with  30cm piranhas

Thanks, may I add your quote to my sig?

Annihilator said: Walking careless onto hokko without masking is like jumping into a bathtub with the hungry 30cm piranhas (infestation)
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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

include my edit

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

I agree about with the suggestion for more land mass, personally a number (6) of small 1/2 current sized islands with only non claimable outposts and lots of teleport linkswould be great populate them with a couple of ore types (maybe not epitron) in nice jucy red spots that dynamicly move when they are cleared out. 
Throw in a selection of 3rd and 4th star spawns heavier on the mechs and you have a nice dynamic accesible area for solo small group pve / mining with reletively easy escape routes but nothing certian.

37 Reply by Purgatory (edited by Purgatory 2011-02-08 20:36:01)

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Jita wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

I've got my head around the new detection/masking changes and the modules, benefits of using them or not and it only worsens the situation of beta islands being inaccessible to the average player.

Now let's just imagine a player manages to get safely on a beta island and begins killing npcs. This player needs to have a masking module fitted, this not only gimps his setup but drains a whole lot of AP and that's definetly not what you need while npcing.

The masking module is now essential, because if you do not fit one, then get ready to get owned because all it takes is a enemy scout with a detection module fitted and he will see and you will not be able to see him. Enemy scout calls backup, however many is needed for a sure victory, and that average player or players are about to get zerged off that island.

Before at least the players could see each other at the same time, so if it was a single scout you could make preparations to escape the island, with the new detection modules you won't get that chance unless you've got a stealth module. Backup will be called, you won't know it's coming, and you'll be destroyed for sure.

The advantage is to the alliances who are scouting their island for enemies. The don't care about ap drain or combat fitting if they're only scouting, but the player who is doing the npcing is going to care, because 75/ap drain per 10 sec aswell as a wasted module slot is going to make npcing that much more difficult.

So you mean the people who fought for their island and actively fit dedicated scouts to protect it might be able to stop people from going there without permission. Thats ridiculous crazy cakes! This needs a nerf right away.

You make it sound like getting just 2 people from your 1000 man alliance to leave an alt parked at each of the 2 entrances to your island is a lot of work.

EDIT - Actually judging from your post, that IS too much work, and that's why you welcome the change. On the off chance that someone somehow gets lucky and slips onto your island unnoticed, they've now got to worry about scouts who can see them but they can not see back. Hence the need to fit a masking or detection module onto your PVE fit which is possible but annoying.

38 Reply by Seridur (edited by Seridur 2011-02-10 17:55:44)

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Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Op is right, contrary to what people have expected from this new patch, it has made the world much SMALLER.

We want bigger world not because there is not enough mobs to shot at at beta, but peole need some chance to avoid getting killed while they are doing pve stuff, or just looking for targets in their power range whatever.
It is not realistic to expect that a solo player or every individual in a small squad would equip signal masking module-maybe they can be fitted on mechs without excessive sacrifices, but not on ligther bots.
For a roaming party however it is enough to have one dedicated scout in the whole party. With skills it is possible to detect bots from 2-3k meters (depending on target)- that's 4 to 9 times bigger detection area.
To counter this somehow the only way is that the other party should have dedicated scout too. Since one scout is enough then this mechanism just favors bigger squads even more and as I've said: makes the world a smaller place so introducing much bigger islands very soon is even more important.
I can agree that these new modules make pvp a bit more interesting, but on the other hand they hurt the game, because it favors those who are already in better position and makes avoidiong unbalanced fights much  harder.