Topic: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

I've got my head around the new detection/masking changes and the modules, benefits of using them or not and it only worsens the situation of beta islands being inaccessible to the average player.

Now let's just imagine a player manages to get safely on a beta island and begins killing npcs. This player needs to have a masking module fitted, this not only gimps his setup but drains a whole lot of AP and that's definetly not what you need while npcing.

The masking module is now essential, because if you do not fit one, then get ready to get owned because all it takes is a enemy scout with a detection module fitted and he will see and you will not be able to see him. Enemy scout calls backup, however many is needed for a sure victory, and that average player or players are about to get zerged off that island.

Before at least the players could see each other at the same time, so if it was a single scout you could make preparations to escape the island, with the new detection modules you won't get that chance unless you've got a stealth module. Backup will be called, you won't know it's coming, and you'll be destroyed for sure.

The advantage is to the alliances who are scouting their island for enemies. The don't care about ap drain or combat fitting if they're only scouting, but the player who is doing the npcing is going to care, because 75/ap drain per 10 sec aswell as a wasted module slot is going to make npcing that much more difficult.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Wow it's like you're in a full pvp environment, now with added scouts...

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Mara Kaid wrote:

Wow it's like you're in a full pvp environment, now with added scouts...

Ah yeah, sorry about that, using those beta islands, i'm like one of the only people outside one of the 3 main alliances who actually go there, as if it wasn't already easy enough to defend those places.

Won't change anything for me, I will adapt, and continue using beta islands. Have fun looking for me, and I mean me, because you won't find any other players bothering to use them, they wern't before, they definetly will not now.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Ditto OP. All of a sudden it looks to me like devs are pandering to beta island inhabitants. Is there some reason for this other than to make it a shooting gallery for them even easier than it was?

Would the devs like it if all new players just teleported to beta and stood in a line for slaughter? looks like it.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Tokugawa wrote:

Ditto OP. All of a sudden it looks to me like devs are pandering to beta island inhabitants. Is there some reason for this other than to make it a shooting gallery for them even easier than it was?

Would the devs like it if all new players just teleported to beta and stood in a line for slaughter? looks like it.

I don't know if they'd intentionally make the situation worse. Maybe they just didn't see it this way.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

its only the beginning - artillery will make it even worse wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

7 (edited by Voodh 2011-02-05 06:11:42)

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

With the range extenders and now the signal modules, the factions with more head slots have a clear advantage.

Now we maybe need more engeneering legs modules.

Maybe signal detection can be made with a head slot module (like a strong radar) and signal masking with an engeneering module (like a special coating). This seems logical.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

thats why i wondered that there is no difference of the detection/masking values between the factions.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

In other words, OP, you want to be able to go into enemy territory and kill NPCs in total safety, is that it?

I suggest joining a corporation with holdings on one of the beta islands already, or forming up as a corporation in force and doing an op on beta islands in force.  I suggest right off the Hilmanoc teleporter (there is both mining and NPC hunting available not even 1000m off the teleporter. 

You can't live on alpha and expect to just come into land held by an opposing force whenever you want without consequence.  You have to take the bad with the good.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

I don't support ideas that encourage completely self-dependent solo play.

If the average player wants to go on beta islands, they should be able to hire people to protect them, or pay the controlling corp for a license to farm NPCs there. Aren't you the guy who was paying 10m NIC/day to mine on beta? Why can't you make a similar arrangement?

I think that's how it should work, although not sure if the game is set up well enough for that behaviour to emerge on a regular basis.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Campana wrote:

I don't support ideas that encourage completely self-dependent solo play.

you know, thats one of the reasons why everything is done in blobs?
Its kinda contradicting that you want to have small group engagements for your so loved PvP roaming,
but on the other hand, you dont want small group/solo PvE Content.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Annihilator wrote:

its only the beginning - artillery will make it even worse wink

Lol Anni, i wonder what they will say when player owned structures will be implemented smile

Guys, if you will use your brain skills: this modules can bring much fun and PvP advantage.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

no, really, its great:

Any Industrial bot, arkhe or heavy mech: signal masking 80

small bot or normal mech - signal detection 120

standard signal detector = 50% bonus
T4 signal detector = 100% bonus

(1000m/80) * (120*1,5) = 2250m
(1000m/80) * (120*2,0) = 3000m

extensions not included. so industrial bot (that includes arganos and sequer) without stealth are spotted from 3km and more. Good luck if you can shoot with artillery that far

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

3km? Hell nice) I foreseen new scouting era)

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Annihilator wrote:

you know, thats one of the reasons why everything is done in blobs?
Its kinda contradicting that you want to have small group engagements for your so loved PvP roaming,
but on the other hand, you dont want small group/solo PvE Content.

Read his OP - he's asking for solo content, not small group pve. Big difference.

Now if he'd said "this change makes it impossible for a group of alpha island PvEers to go over to beta islands and farm mobs" I might be a bit more sympathetic.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

the difference is not that big.

if it can be done solo by an very experienced player (with good equip, and extensions) its also group content for small groups.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Bastian Croft wrote:

In other words, OP, you want to be able to go into enemy territory and kill NPCs in total safety, is that it?

I suggest joining a corporation with holdings on one of the beta islands already, or forming up as a corporation in force and doing an op on beta islands in force.  I suggest right off the Hilmanoc teleporter (there is both mining and NPC hunting available not even 1000m off the teleporter. 

You can't live on alpha and expect to just come into land held by an opposing force whenever you want without consequence.  You have to take the bad with the good.

Since when was it possible to kill npcs on beta in total safety?

18 (edited by Purgatory 2011-02-06 02:01:20)

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Campana wrote:

I don't support ideas that encourage completely self-dependent solo play.

If the average player wants to go on beta islands, they should be able to hire people to protect them, or pay the controlling corp for a license to farm NPCs there. Aren't you the guy who was paying 10m NIC/day to mine on beta? Why can't you make a similar arrangement?

I think that's how it should work, although not sure if the game is set up well enough for that behaviour to emerge on a regular basis.

It was 10 mill a day to mine or npc. I did try to get the offer again but was refused, not for that price anyway, decided it wasn't worth paying more for what I wanted it for.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Purgatory wrote:

It was 10 mill a day to mine or npc. I did try to get the offer again but was refused, not for that price anyway, decided it wasn't worth paying more for what I wanted it for.

Yeah sorry that didn't work out for you. That's the kind of sandboxy thing I think solo players ought to be able to do.

"...playing a game is the voluntary attempt to overcome unnecessary obstacles."
Bernard Suits, 1978

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Purgatory wrote:

the new detection/masking changes and the modules ... only worsens the situation of beta islands being inaccessible to the average player.

Poasting #1: The author of the OP is apparently observed to have issue with the changes after the patch.


Purgatory wrote:

Won't change anything for me, I will adapt, and continue using beta islands.

Poasting #3 (only 55 minutes later): The author seems to have come up with a fool-proof solution to the issue he had stated in his OP.


*Mongolia scratches head and wonders if the author actually had a legitimate issue or did he just want to randomly whine*

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

What prevents the OP of using same tools as everyone else to avoid detection?

22 (edited by Purgatory 2011-02-07 03:22:07)

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Siddy wrote:

What prevents the OP of using same tools as everyone else to avoid detection?

Those tools, being?

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Purgatory wrote:

the new detection/masking changes and the modules ... only worsens the situation of beta islands being inaccessible to the average player.

Poasting #1: The author of the OP is apparently observed to have issue with the changes after the patch.


Purgatory wrote:

Won't change anything for me, I will adapt, and continue using beta islands.

Poasting #3 (only 55 minutes later): The author seems to have come up with a fool-proof solution to the issue he had stated in his OP.


*Mongolia scratches head and wonders if the author actually had a legitimate issue or did he just want to randomly whine*

Yeah works for me because I can afford to use stupid expensive masking/detection modules and waste a slot and 75ap/10 sec to fit one and still make do. I never go completely solo though, always have at help from at least one.

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Purgatory wrote:

Yeah works for me because I can afford to use stupid expensive masking/detection modules...

Considering one can earn many millions in beta I would say the module is stupid cheap.  wink

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

Re: New masking/detection mods further amplify the issues of world layout

Purgatory wrote:

I've got my head around the new detection/masking changes and the modules, benefits of using them or not and it only worsens the situation of beta islands being inaccessible to the average player.

Now let's just imagine a player manages to get safely on a beta island and begins killing npcs. This player needs to have a masking module fitted, this not only gimps his setup but drains a whole lot of AP and that's definetly not what you need while npcing.

The masking module is now essential, because if you do not fit one, then get ready to get owned because all it takes is a enemy scout with a detection module fitted and he will see and you will not be able to see him. Enemy scout calls backup, however many is needed for a sure victory, and that average player or players are about to get zerged off that island.

Before at least the players could see each other at the same time, so if it was a single scout you could make preparations to escape the island, with the new detection modules you won't get that chance unless you've got a stealth module. Backup will be called, you won't know it's coming, and you'll be destroyed for sure.

The advantage is to the alliances who are scouting their island for enemies. The don't care about ap drain or combat fitting if they're only scouting, but the player who is doing the npcing is going to care, because 75/ap drain per 10 sec aswell as a wasted module slot is going to make npcing that much more difficult.

So you mean the people who fought for their island and actively fit dedicated scouts to protect it might be able to stop people from going there without permission. Thats ridiculous crazy cakes! This needs a nerf right away.

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