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Topic: Guerilla Warfare

So as a lot of you out there probably like me oldfags from EvE.

There has been something missing from this game in PvP that has been making me itch. I was a pirate for about 6 years in EvE and I would have to say that I am disappoint.

I know you are trying to be your own game and not trying to be copy pasta, but there are just some things that need improvement/changed in PvP.

1) Radar... I don't believe all bots should have 1km range on their radar at all times. Leave the long distance scouting to the E-Wars. Mining Bots should have the least at about the distance of the longest possible range weapon with full skill upgrades. Then it should work in increments from there.

Reason for this is that there is no way to gank/surprise attack anyone who is not afk. E.G. Is that my current Prometheus with lasers and sensor amp has the max targeting range of 211m with my current skills. That means that any bot has 789m of effective distance to decide wtf to do while my bot is moving at 62kph towards him.

Now lets make this even crazier. I move at 62kph and the miner moves at roughly 45kph (never drove one but rough estimate) that means I have 17kph of effective speed to cover 789m to just start locking on. What happens in all this time? Radio help, decide where they will set up support and lead me to them. blah blah blah

2) Speed... The speed for most bots goes from 40-65kph with exception of E-Wars. So did any thought go into this before making combat bots almost as slow if not slower than industrial bots? I am not asking for AB or MWD's, and I know we are bots. I get that we move slow, but their needs to be some sort of speed boost even if temporary to help get out of sticky situations or to help close that gap on a quick gank or assault. Again from my radar section it is just rediculous how much ground you have to cover just to get anything done.

3) Cloak... I understand this can get real cheezy, but regardless its the future we are bots we should have cloak by order of me. Scouting/ganking/getting away there are just so many positives out of cloak.

4) The terrain... Now I know all of this will require lots of work, but one thing that bothers me about radar is that it must be a satellite view because I am pretty sure radar can't see whats behind a mountain. If the fact that we are stuck on this glitchy terrain meant that you could hide behind things out of radar LoS then OMG this game would be so much better.

Think about it the next time you are out on beta islands doing PvP how much funner it would be if you were doing some covert ops and hiding behind pillars rocks and other solid terrain that concealed your bot from enemy radar. Of course you wouldn't be able to see them either but to poke your head out for intel while you are looking at your landmarks most of them are probably afk or checking market or surfing web while they mine or something. I mean the radar thing worked in eve because it was open space. This is not at all and the last time I checked a military radar about 6 months ago before I got out of Navy in Aug it did not see through mountains.

Ok tired of typing. These may seem like outrageous game ideas but I am only out to make it better and funner for everyone.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

The meme is strong in this one...

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki
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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Neoxx wrote:

The meme is strong in this one...

thx for bump =P

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

commiedic wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

The meme is strong in this one...

thx for bump =P

Welcome!

If you really want to try to gank people, small squads of ewar is your best option.  Sure, they dont do much pew pew, but you want to get in and get out, killing a miner or two or a straggling assault without getting caught.  Especially with ewar, you are not much at risk of damage when they cant lock you anyway.

You have to take the good with the bad.  The bad is that you cant be on top of someone instantly, but the good is that they cant escape instantly if you do get to them.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

5 Reply by Vorgrim Scout (edited by Vorgrim Scout 2010-12-17 22:47:10)

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

I think my main problem with light ewars is, while the speed is fine and all, the lack of firepower means a tacklebot intakt will quite easily hold you down by dancing around LoS while a bunch of assaults or mechs slowly saunter over.

There seems no reasonable way to raise your dmg enough to dispatch that 120kph+ irritation quickly. This is why I am using an assault and plan to move on from basic robotics asap. A real shame tbh.

My suggestion may seem a little bizzarre at first, but it would remedy this situaion somewhat. Reduce base armor accross the board and add a small armor modifier to all modules to make up for the deficit. The idea would be that a stripped bot is paper thin, to nip this stripped tackle thing in the bud.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Neoxx wrote:
commiedic wrote:
Neoxx wrote:

The meme is strong in this one...

thx for bump =P

Welcome!

If you really want to try to gank people, small squads of ewar is your best option.  Sure, they dont do much pew pew, but you want to get in and get out, killing a miner or two or a straggling assault without getting caught.  Especially with ewar, you are not much at risk of damage when they cant lock you anyway.

You have to take the good with the bad.  The bad is that you cant be on top of someone instantly, but the good is that they cant escape instantly if you do get to them.

I am not necessarily asking to be on top of someone instantly like EvE, but I would kind of like to be met halfway with it. I mean there seems to be no reason why anyone would want anything more than E-War bots at this point. it seems the ability to break locks, slow, and damage lock distance and speed of a bot is outweighing the pew pew power of bots stronger than E-Wars.

E-War bots seem to be too strong imo for the lack of defense you can put up against them while using light bots/assault bots. 1-3 head slots is all you got. most are 1 or 2 . So that means sensor amp and weapon upgrade. But you will have to exchange one of those with some sort of E-War defense which the only one is ECCM sure that helps but you can still get slowed pretty heavily.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

You will find it interesting to note that all of the elements you want are in development. A total revamp of the radar with different signatures for different bots and mechs. The essential idea is using a dedicated bot with the correct nods you would be able to sneak under the edge of a heavier mechs radar without getting spotted and maintain contact.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Jita wrote:

You will find it interesting to note that all of the elements you want are in development. A total revamp of the radar with different signatures for different bots and mechs. The essential idea is using a dedicated bot with the correct nods you would be able to sneak under the edge of a heavier mechs radar without getting spotted and maintain contact.

That would be awesome. Radar working like it should instead of this god eye radar we currently have now. Radar should be LoS+ which is pretty much what it is in the RL. What you could see is what it does see.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Be interesting to know how many of the devs are working on features and how many on fixes / keeping the game in one piece.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

It says there is a patch in the upcoming week, but I can't find anything about what the patch is focusing on.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

They have been hotfixing the small issues, now its gone quiet all of a sudden right before the sub reup date. Quietly expectant.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Vorgrim Scout wrote:

I think my main problem with light ewars is, while the speed is fine and all, the lack of firepower means a tacklebot intakt will quite easily hold you down by dancing around LoS while a bunch of assaults or mechs slowly saunter over.

This is ever a balancing act and its even more true in coorperative games.

So while the tacklebot can slow you, it can't kill you itself; so 1-1 there isn't an issue. If the Intakt has no assault bots in the wings, its just harrassing you, if there are than it is no longer 1-1 and you should lose. If you add too much firepower to ewar, now you've made it something everyone has to have, because it would be the most useful bot.

There could be a balance issue, I don't use them enough to determine that, but its also human nature to want your chosen bot to do everything.

Roving bands of 3 mechs is about the smallest anyone can expect to go to beta with and be effective. At least at this stage of the game where all the large alliances are on beta Islands, there really isn't room for gurrella war; the Islands are too small and the defending forces too strong.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

I want thorax with ogres....

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

commiedic wrote:

That would be awesome. Radar working like it should instead of this god eye radar we currently have now. Radar should be LoS+ which is pretty much what it is in the RL. What you could see is what it does see.

RL comparisons are good when they are used to convey an idea, but fall apart when used as an arguement for a reason why something works in the game.

There really isn't anything that says that the landmark window is 'radar'. Foremost it is a tool and does not need to have any rational to the way it works; it simply provides more information than can be rationalized, but its OK because its a game.

That said your arguements for why things should be different are just fine and don't need the RL reference.

*note: RL radar does not need to be LOS btw. MIMO for wireless uses multiple antennas to reconstruct a signal from reflected surfaces; which is an adaptation from military radars.

15 Reply by Vorgrim Scout (edited by Vorgrim Scout 2010-12-17 23:41:02)

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Actually the landmark window is a list of things on your radar for the most part (1010m range). Only exceptions that spring to mind being squad mates and assignment objectives.

I would like to see radar observe some crude reliance on LoS. Though not nearly as strict as weapon calculations. At the very least the visual respresentions (additional icons) should observe it unless a target is locked.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

Vorgrim Scout wrote:

Only exceptions that spring to mind being squad mates and assignment objectives.

Those were the two items that I was referrencing.

And asking for LOS is perfectly reasonable if justifiable for game mechanics; just trying to nudge people away from using RL references as arguements for feature changes. RL analogies are fine to help explain how something works though.

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

shameless self bump

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Re: Guerilla Warfare

I completely agree with the OP, and can't wait to see the revamped radar system.


Vorgrim Scout wrote:

I think my main problem with light ewars is, while the speed is fine and all, the lack of firepower means a tacklebot intakt will quite easily hold you down by dancing around LoS while a bunch of assaults or mechs slowly saunter over.

There seems no reasonable way to raise your dmg enough to dispatch that 120kph+ irritation quickly. This is why I am using an assault and plan to move on from basic robotics asap. A real shame tbh.

My suggestion may seem a little bizzarre at first, but it would remedy this situaion somewhat. Reduce base armor accross the board and add a small armor modifier to all modules to make up for the deficit. The idea would be that a stripped bot is paper thin, to nip this stripped tackle thing in the bud.


As i mentioned in your thread, your suggestion dose nott fix the issue your raising.
Fully fit, or not fit except for tackle, a decent Inakt can still completely dictate range and hold tackle on an assault.