1 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-13 20:27:14)

Topic: Corporation manufacturing features

Currently, all manufacturing from CTs have to be performed by individuals, from personal hangars, and with the output to personal hangars.  This does not allow for organizational flexiblity, and creates a dependance on specific individuals that limits organizational redundancy.

Suggestions:

- Corporation factory lines:  The ablity to assign roles for CTs to be installed for the corporation.  Anyone with the appropriate corp roles, can run that CT in the factory, from the corporation wallet.  This would require:

A) Roles to install, and remove, CTs for corporation
B) Roles to run corporation CTs in corporation factory lines, drawing from corp wallet.
C) Specific catagory roles for what types of lines an individual can run.  For example, Member A may only be able to run ammunition, and light bots, whereas Member B may be able to run ammunition, light bots, assaults, mechs, and Member C can run weapon modules, electronic modules, and armor modules.

-Corporation Factory lines input and output controls:  Currently, materials have to be in an individual's hangar to run factory lines.  The only way to access the corp materials to run corporation production is to pull those materials into a personal hangar and run the job from there.  This creates several issues, availablity of materials to other corporation member manufacturers, people forgetting to return unused material to corp hangars, or even corporate theft.  This would require:

A) the ablity to set corporation specific hangars and containers for the input source for the materials.  Corp CEO/Directors can move materials to that specific access point, and thus control accessiblity of raw materials.

B) the ablity to set corporation specific hangars and containers for production output.  Even though a corp member may have the roles to run a job, the output automatically is delivered to a specific corp hangar/container that they may not have access to.

Thus, even if specific members are not online at the time, there is the ablity of designated people to run production for the corporation, and the production output will still be in a hangar that a member with the appropriate roles would have access to.  CEO/Directors can control the issue by limiting the amounts of materials in the input container, and also have the production output available immediately to the corp at completion of the job, regardless of the individual who ran the job being online, and with enough security to control access to the production output.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Would you say trust, including risk of theft, is (or ought to be) part of the game, or not?

3 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-13 20:35:41)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Limited trust, yes, total uncontrolled trust, no.  You still have to grant those roles to someone (trust), and that person may also have roles to access the outputs ( trust again), based on hangar access.  But able to take the whole cookie jar?  No.

Besides, where is the challenge to your corp theif then?  Too easy ... and maybe your CEO should look at your access rights with that sentiment...

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

You join a group of explicitly self-described griefers - and then ask the devs to develop bureaucratic tools so you can cooperate with your treacherous corpmates? I think even the notorious troll Jelan would agree this sounds like QQ.

I'd rather the devs worked on player-built outposts, terraforming, new bots and more equipment, more special effects and more mechanics, more assignments and more content, not more bureaucracy UI to fit a niche need.

5 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-13 21:09:27)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Artem Blue wrote:

You join a group of explicitly self-described griefers - and then ask the devs to develop bureaucratic tools so you can cooperate with your treacherous corpmates? I think even the notorious troll Jelan would agree this sounds like QQ.

I'd rather the devs worked on player-built outposts, terraforming, new bots and more equipment, more special effects and more mechanics, more assignments and more content, not more bureaucracy UI to fit a niche need.

And the above has to do with the subject how?  LOL, discuss the concept, not the corp.

As far as niche, hardly.  Almost every corp out there is doing some type of manufacturing, and the availablity of the individuals directly affects product availablity to those corps.  So this is a feature that would hardly be "niche" by any sense of the term.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

6 (edited by GLiMPSE 2010-12-13 21:18:05)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Artem Blue wrote:

You join a group of explicitly self-described griefers - and then ask the devs to develop bureaucratic tools so you can cooperate with your treacherous corpmates? I think even the notorious troll Jelan would agree this sounds like QQ.

I'd rather the devs worked on player-built outposts, terraforming, new bots and more equipment, more special effects and more mechanics, more assignments and more content, not more bureaucracy UI to fit a niche need.

Lupus is just trying to make it more of a challenge for our spy's to steal all your stuff....

Good on ya Lupus... man of the year award!

<truthz>

~G~

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

There are EP's that change the run times and number of runs you can have. If you dissassociate the factory from the person, you are essentially usurping the Agent skills for use by the corporation.

Yes, it would make it easier to coordinate, but so would putting all the corporation accounts under the control of the corporation and not even needing the player to login.

I say we expand this idea so the corporation can remotely control all the players robots too!

Set up a google docs spreadsheet and plan your runs in metagame and have your players login and follow the production schedule.

8 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-14 01:59:38)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Arga wrote:

There are EP's that change the run times and number of runs you can have. If you dissassociate the factory from the person, you are essentially usurping the Agent skills for use by the corporation.

Hardly.  CT is installed for corp, but run at the players skill set levels.

Arga wrote:

Yes, it would make it easier to coordinate, but so would putting all the corporation accounts under the control of the corporation and not even needing the player to login.

Irrelevant and nothing to do with the concept presented.  People still have to log in to run jobs, CEO/director's still have to log on to move raw materials, etc.  This merely aids organizational flexiblity, risk is still involve, and people still have to play the game.

Arga wrote:

I say we expand this idea so the corporation can remotely control all the players robots too!

Also not within the realm of the concept, no remote control implied in the concept.  Discuss the facts and the concept, instead of spamming irrelevant extreme extrapolations that are not stated or implied.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Sorry, my response was snarkier than I had intended and definetly an extreme extrapolation.

There really isn't a lot of action being an industrialist, moving stuff around and controlling CT's is about the only challenge there is to this role.

Having the ability to assign production 'requests' to players is a good idea, taking out the material aspect leaves them with basically nothing to do.

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

I believe this concept has some merit but I also think that it is far too powerful as stated. What you are suggesting is actually a drastic improvement of a corporations efficiency, yes, but it is also a removal of a key role and market limitation for the industry-oriented character. The "niche" that has been pointed out as being usurped is referring to the role of logistics. Transporting the sometimes vast amounts of ore and materials needed to have an efficient production line forces the player to carefully consider the cost/benefit ratio of every production to see if those seemingly high profit margins are in fact worth going after. If this feature were removed, it would severely depress the prices of goods because the effort involved in production would be drastically decreased, especially for well organized corporations; This would also limit new players ability to jump into an economy where the opportunities are few and far between.

However, despite the downsides of a fully integrated corporate production line, I do think that a partial implementation of the features would be a good thing. For example, perhaps delegating ownership to CTs or at least enabling them to be traded would allow players to specialize in reverse engineering. Also, an option to only output the production lines into the corporate hangar would not have to much of an overall destabilizing effect but it would allow players to interact with their corp mates in different time zones. Anyways, that's just my two cents.

11 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-14 17:09:30)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Gerrick wrote:

... The "niche" that has been pointed out as being usurped is referring to the role of logistics. Transporting the sometimes vast amounts of ore and materials needed to have an efficient production line forces the player to carefully consider the cost/benefit ratio of every production to see if those seemingly high profit margins are in fact worth going after.

Not really.  Material still has to be at the outpost/terminal that the CT is being run at.  You still have to bring the material there, and you still have to ship the product out to market, if it is not for corp use.  Actually, nothing changes as far as the material movement logistics.  The only thing that changes, if a CT can be run for corporation, is that the raw materials stay in the corp hangar, and the production output is delivered to a corp hangar, all at the same outpost as the CT installation.

Effort as far as production also remains the same.  You still have to mine, refine, research, prototype, reverse engineer, and manufacture.  Nothing changes as far as all that.  The real change is only where the input comes from (corp hangar vs personal hangar) and the output is delivered to (same), with some level of control as to who can, based on corp roles.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

My point wasn't that the overall effort of production was reduced, just the individual effort required by an agent (and costs associated with that effort) due to the distribution throughout a corporation.

13 (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2010-12-15 17:19:06)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

How so?  I'm talking about corp manufacturing, not for individuls.  Most corps at this time that have been around awhile now have dedicated researchers/prototypers/manufacturers.  The only change to any of the workload is that instead of that corp individual being the only one that can run that CT, now, anyone with the assigned roles can run it for the corp, at their specific skill level.  That's the only difference, and I seriously doubt a corp installed CT would be availabloe to just anyone, because if you give the roles to unskilled people, the damn thing degrades, and you get less product for more material out of it.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Well, I do think that restrict-able corp access to a CT is a good idea. This would make it much more convenient to manage the "intellectual property" of the corp. However, I'm not too sure about multiple corp members being able to run a manufacturing cycle on a previously installed CT. This would basically render the CT extraction extension useless.

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

????? Why, they can run it, not extract it.  Still no effect.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Well I mean normally they would have to extract it for someone else to use it, right?

17 (edited by Jelan 2010-12-16 01:22:45)

Re: Corporation manufacturing features

Artem Blue wrote:

You join a group of explicitly self-described griefers - and then ask the devs to develop bureaucratic tools so you can cooperate with your treacherous corpmates? I think even the notorious troll Jelan would agree this sounds like QQ.

I'd rather the devs worked on player-built outposts, terraforming, new bots and more equipment, more special effects and more mechanics, more assignments and more content, not more bureaucracy UI to fit a niche need.

Hey leave me out of this!  I mostly only troll CD and occasionally pretend pvp corps in recruitment. I'm sensitive you know lol

OT: edit nevermind, i sort of agree with it actually.  However i do agree that individual industrialists should still have something to do, its there role after all