Topic: Intrusion times

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels there has to be a better system than randomly generated intrusion times that are often at the early hours of the morning or midday during the work week.

Could we get a system where the defender sets their own intrusion time?  I realize they could still set it for the middle of the night/day but it wouldn't be any worse than what we have right now and it would give some folks a better chance to defend what they have without missing workdays.

Re: Intrusion times

Maybe you could have blocks of time. For instance four 6hr blocks of 00:00-05:59, 06:00-11:59, 12:00-17:59 and 18:00-23:59 or maybe six 4hr blocks instead. The CEO of the corporation owning the outpost can then choose a primary block and a secondary block during which they prefer to have an intrusion event on their outpost. The actual intrusion time is randomly selected from the primary block. If the randomly selected time clashes with another outpost's intrusion and no time slots are available in the primary block it falls into the secondary block. Or something.

Re: Intrusion times

TBH, I think every 4 days needs to be changes to every 5 or 6 days. I was going to say the outpost owner setting the event time was not going to work, until I saw Campana's post.

That could work... Nice one.

But remember this is not intended end game. Battle for NPC outposts is a temp thing for end game territory warfare.

But yeah the times are getting really bad......

John 3:16 - Timothy 2:23

4 (edited by Arga 2010-12-08 20:56:08)

Re: Intrusion times

This is a global game though, so one Corps bad time is another's good time.

Random times require Corps that want to hold Beta Island to recruit across time zones or ally with other corps.

This will be a challenge while active player count is low, but it works both ways, in that the attackers won't have a large force either.

Edit:

Random times are good.

Re: Intrusion times

Maybe make the intrusion times rotate by 12 or 10 hours or something? So if you get an intrusion event on an outpost you own that is at say 6:30am, you can use a protection, but then the next one is going to be around 6:30pm?

There must be a better system that combines protections and/or time blocks. A balance between flexibility for the defenders, but inflexibility so that eventually corps are forced into a defense.

Or, how about we all quit our jobs and rearrange our sleep schedules? Last corp that can still pay subs wins...

Re: Intrusion times

Arga wrote:

This will be a challenge while active player count is low, but it works both ways, in that the attackers won't have a large force either.

This will be exactly the same if my idea of time blocks was used. Corps would either choose to have intrusion events when they have most people on (but risk more enemies) or during a dead time (but risk less defenders).

Using time blocks just means that the onus is more likely to be on the attacking corp to scrape together players out of peak time, rather than forcing the defending one to get up at some ungodly hour.

The majority of corps will be active during European and US evenings so I would expect these to be the most popular times.

Re: Intrusion times

The point isn't that the defending party would need to wake up at some ungodly hour, that's exactly not the point of random Incursions. The point is that you need to recruit people that are 'normally' on at that time to defend; and exactly, that owning and keeping Islands requires you to have enough players online ALL the time because it is a persistent world.

Alternately a smaller PVP corporation could make a living by selling their services at Incursion times that occur during thier normal playing hours.

That said, in another thread, JOKE was able to avoid being overtaken by simply keeping the silo and didn't have to worry about combat, so the whole Incursion issue could be moot as 2-3 players online can prevent a corp from losing a terminal.

And 'ownership' of the Island in general is symantics as a sizable force from anywhere can gank your miners on 'your' Island; and camp your terminal too for that matter.

Re: Intrusion times

Random times is stupid. People have jobs, school and families. Defender should set the time when "challenged".

I think the whole intrusion system needs reworking from what I have heard coming from those participating in them.

Re: Intrusion times

Arga wrote:

The point is that you need to recruit people that are 'normally' on at that time to defend; and exactly, that owning and keeping Islands requires you to have enough players online ALL the time because it is a persistent world.

The point of incursions being random is not to force corps to start recruiting outside their normal time zones...I think it's just the developers trying to find a way that was fair, and that wouldn't involve corps deliberately trying to attack outposts when other corps were offline. A persistent world shouldn't try to force players to find a way to show a presence 24/7, instead they should take into account that people have to eat, sleep work and possibly even have a life outside of an online game.

Arga wrote:

That said, in another thread, JOKE was able to avoid being overtaken by simply keeping the silo and didn't have to worry about combat, so the whole Incursion issue could be moot as 2-3 players online can prevent a corp from losing a terminal.

It was convenient for them, certainly, but they themselves acknowledged it's not an ideal situation. From what we saw, technically it is possible for someone to log in on a sequer and take over a specimen processing SAP pretty much before their protection flag wears off. This is not a desirable situation - incursions are supposed to encourage corps to engage in pvp combat, not give 3-man operations a way to defend it.

Re: Intrusion times

Vorg, I agree it needs reworking.

Random times aren't stupid, they're random.

The concept of being able to 'plan' when you are going to be attacked isn't realistic; just knowing that you are going to be attacked at a certain time (not of your choosing) is a big streach too. But you can imagine the outcry if Incursions happend at random times, with NO notice!

Allowing defenders to choose the best time for them isn't 'balanced' and you would see a LOT more gaming of that ability; for instance Corp X doesn't have anyone online at 2 am, and they are our biggest competitor, so I'm going to choose 2am for the Incursion. So now Corp X is on the forums saying that being able to choose the time is stupid because people have lives and can't be on at 2 am to attack.

See the problem?

11 (edited by Arga 2010-12-09 00:14:29)

Re: Intrusion times

Camp,

Agreed.

I just don't see a fairer way of setting scheduled PVP on a 24/7 server; other than random times?

Edit- corrected grammer... sort of )

Re: Intrusion times

What was the eventual solution in darkfall?

Issue a challenge that gave 12hrs notice or something. Wasn't too bad and kept things interesting and dynamic.

Re: Intrusion times

Actually, thinking about it again, the random times make perfect sense when player built structures come into play. Outposts become commodities, rather than Corporation bases.

Re: Intrusion times

Best system I have seen was in the best siege game I have seen, shadowbane.

Enemy drops a siege declaration via some mechanism on your outpost and you have 24 hours to set a time within the next 2 days for it to go live.

it favors the defenders, as it should, and usually ensures as fair a fight as possible.  In this system where multiple people can sign up for a siege it could work the same way with some very small alterations.

Re: Intrusion times

I liked the shadowbane method. You get tagged and you set the time, then everyone gets notified. Defenders can pick a time they can actually defend. Attackers are given a day or so notice to plan an attack.

Re: Intrusion times

Shadowbane had 5 servers to chose from, not a single all inclusive world, so had the opportunity to divide users up more naturally by time zones. Similar to how WoW has Europe servers, sure you can play on it if you are in the US, but your going to have to log in the middle of the night to be part of the raiding community.

Choosing your defending time, regardless of how the challenge is issued, would create a situation where the majority of conflicts happened between corps within similar time zones.

Isn't the whole idea of Intrusion to generate PVP interaction over scarcity of resources? How can a US corp repeatedly challenge a Russian corp (and vice-versa) if they always choose 4am attacker time to defend.

Re: Intrusion times

I actually rather like the way intrusion events are regularly scheduled. Ideally each outpost should be once per week/eight days rather than once every three days though.

Re: Intrusion times

The bade idea of registering for an intrusion is flawed anyways. There should be a requirement to hold three additional saps for a couple of hours before the station saps become active. There would be a 1 - 24 hour delay as to when the station saps would then become active.

You would then need to control an area in your timezone for an extended time before then attacking your enemy in their timezone. Basing it on money is dumb.

Re: Intrusion times

Campana wrote:

Maybe you could have blocks of time. For instance four 6hr blocks of 00:00-05:59, 06:00-11:59, 12:00-17:59 and 18:00-23:59 or maybe six 4hr blocks instead. The CEO of the corporation owning the outpost can then choose a primary block and a secondary block during which they prefer to have an intrusion event on their outpost. The actual intrusion time is randomly selected from the primary block. If the randomly selected time clashes with another outpost's intrusion and no time slots are available in the primary block it falls into the secondary block. Or something.


OMG I'm agreeing with an m2s "person"

Re: Intrusion times

CenDre wrote:
Campana wrote:

Maybe you could have blocks of time. For instance four 6hr blocks of 00:00-05:59, 06:00-11:59, 12:00-17:59 and 18:00-23:59 or maybe six 4hr blocks instead. The CEO of the corporation owning the outpost can then choose a primary block and a secondary block during which they prefer to have an intrusion event on their outpost. The actual intrusion time is randomly selected from the primary block. If the randomly selected time clashes with another outpost's intrusion and no time slots are available in the primary block it falls into the secondary block. Or something.


OMG I'm agreeing with an m2s "person"

Campana doesnt count anyway, dont worry.

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Re: Intrusion times

Arga wrote:

Shadowbane had 5 servers to chose from, not a single all inclusive world, so had the opportunity to divide users up more naturally by time zones. Similar to how WoW has Europe servers, sure you can play on it if you are in the US, but your going to have to log in the middle of the night to be part of the raiding community.

Choosing your defending time, regardless of how the challenge is issued, would create a situation where the majority of conflicts happened between corps within similar time zones.

Isn't the whole idea of Intrusion to generate PVP interaction over scarcity of resources? How can a US corp repeatedly challenge a Russian corp (and vice-versa) if they always choose 4am attacker time to defend.

Shadowbane servers weren't divided by timezone.  Also Eve's POS reinforcement system is almost identical to this as well where defender picks time it goes live for final capture/destruction.  There is no fair way to allow two corps that operate on different timezones to fight, but making it so you win/lose based on a random time is the worst possibile outcome as neither side will be happy in the longrun

Re: Intrusion times

When applying for an Intrusion Event, Attackers select a window of a few days, along with a specific time. Defenders can choose to accept this time and move forward, or use a token to be given the opportunity to choose their own time (within the Attackers' window). Defenders are give a time-frame within which they must choose to use their token, or the Intrusion goes forward as set out by the Attackers.

Attackers may use a token to counter the token used by the Defenders. Using the token in this way gives the Defenders an opportunity to use another token, and so on.

These tokens are accumulated 1 for every 1 Failed Defence or for every 1 Successful Attack in which the Outpost is looted, but not occupied (whatever this mechanic is called).

Remove tokens which allow you to cancel an Intrusion Event.

Lokked

Re: Intrusion times

Jita wrote:

The bade idea of registering for an intrusion is flawed anyways. There should be a requirement to hold three additional saps for a couple of hours before the station saps become active. There would be a 1 - 24 hour delay as to when the station saps would then become active.

You would then need to control an area in your timezone for an extended time before then attacking your enemy in their timezone. Basing it on money is dumb.

this is the obvious, and most fair/realistic choice by far. This allows the "random" aspect to play, as well as the requirement of multiple timezones, etc.. etc.. it also allows a corporation with a specific TZ of activity to react.

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