Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

[*] Buildings can only be deployed within a certain radius of a terminal. Suggested radius: 1km. Exceptions: mining outpost, command relay, and the planned highway node.[/*]

For obvious reason the exception needs to be extended to energy distribution towers (energy transmitter and energy backbone)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Has the island (Chaydor) not had the terrain reset since the limitations were added?, because there are still walls everywhere.

Also, please show add limitations into the planner.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

I really don't like baby sitting live resource buildings.  I would rather just feed it colxi, or epi based commodities.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

sounds like some good points.
naturally, the mining tower system balanced right, should limit the base size without need for that bandwidth limit.

the long term goal should also include the role of NPCs in gamma expansions.

Ville wrote:

I really don't like baby sitting live resource buildings.  I would rather just feed it colxi, or epi based commodities.

if you can't defend them, perhaps gamma is nothing for your corp?

(have you read that quote somewhere already? big_smile)

you'd rather feed your base with stuff you can blob-mine with 100% protected gates and hoard for months before you need it, instead of keeping an eye on your resource collector buildings.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

If I were particularly mean, with the degradation stuff I'd suggest changing the number of terminals per island to (number of teleports - 1). Yes, even with the proposed slope restrictions.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

sounds like some good points.
naturally, the mining tower system balanced right, should limit the base size without need for that bandwidth limit.

the long term goal should also include the role of NPCs in gamma expansions.

Ville wrote:

I really don't like baby sitting live resource buildings.  I would rather just feed it colxi, or epi based commodities.

if you can't defend them, perhaps gamma is nothing for your corp?

(have you read that quote somewhere already? big_smile)

you'd rather feed your base with stuff you can blob-mine with 100% protected gates and hoard for months before you need it, instead of keeping an eye on your resource collector buildings.

Why not have both options. Either mine that mineral or feed it manually. The mining towers could be too much of a weak point imo.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Malsier Dabian wrote:

Not all corps are the same size and not all corps have the same firepower, the ability to place as many structures as you like with no limits, makes up for the lack of a huge force.

I'm here to play perp  not to play tower defense against a single player.

Malsier Dabian wrote:

it is not fair to make the smaller corps bow and roll over to the larger more experienced ones.

What's next? arenas? What do you think is going to happen to a 2 man corp when a larger corp decides they want to establish themselves on that island, and the 2 man corp decides to tell them to "*** off I'm not bowing to you and rolling over"? Do you seriously think the outcome would be different no matter how many terminals or turrets you have? Perhaps they, since have abundant resources and manpower, may decide to terraform you inside your own base and surround you with infinite turrets like you propose to have. What then? OMG I'm being griefed!?

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Annihilator wrote:

sounds like some good points.
naturally, the mining tower system balanced right, should limit the base size without need for that bandwidth limit.

the long term goal should also include the role of NPCs in gamma expansions.

Ville wrote:

I really don't like baby sitting live resource buildings.  I would rather just feed it colxi, or epi based commodities.

if you can't defend them, perhaps gamma is nothing for your corp?

(have you read that quote somewhere already? big_smile)

you'd rather feed your base with stuff you can blob-mine with 100% protected gates and hoard for months before you need it, instead of keeping an eye on your resource collector buildings.

I was thinking more along the lines of I have a life and micro managing villagers to gather resources is tedious.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

I think your proposed system is a good step forward, a good rough draft in any case. Some thoughts;

[*] When drawing a terraforming plan you can still draw anything, but the tiles that are over this limit are highlighted in red. Beacons will still only terraform as far as the hard slope limit allows. - We realize it's quite hard to terraform this way with precise structures in mind, so we're still trying to make this more user-friendly, possibly by imposing the slope limit directly in the planner.[/*]

You should definitely spend as much time as possible to make it user-friendly. "What you see is what you terraform" should be the goal to aim for.

[*] Terminals cannot be deployed within a certain radius of teleports. Suggested radius: 3km.[/*]
[*] Terminals cannot be deployed within a certain radius of another terminal. Suggested radius: 3km.[/*]

You should consider doing something about the possibility of deploying terminals close to the sea, otherwise islands like Guthraw, Yuraion Ro, Langhrum etc with natural choke points will be at a premium for creating invincible unbreachable Gamma bases.

[*] Terraformed landscape will slowly degrade to the original terrain with time, but this only affects areas that are outside of a certain radius of buildings (ie. unclaimed land). Suggested radius: 300m[/*]

How will this impact Gamma islands (notably green/yellow gamma islands) with natural plateau's that can be used to create invincible and unbreachable Gamma bases?

[*] Reactors will not generate energy on their own. Instead, we will introduce a new underground resource, which can only be exploited by a building, but it does this passively over time. The exploited resource is directly sent through the existing network into the reactor(s), which has a buffer for this resource. (So if you lose all your miner buildings in the network it will still provide energy for some time.) - This feature is still heavily discussed/in development, and I bet you have a lot of questions too, feel free to ask.[/*]

You should honestly structure this so that the raw gammagoo provides some power, but refining it and producing fuel blocks (energy cells?) provides a more efficient way of powering stuff. There's a potential market niche there that people could have fun with. Also, you should make it crystal-clear how many blocks per hour/week/month it requires to keep stuff operational, analyze the economical impact it has cost-wise on keeping a Gamma facility operational, and tweak it accordingly so it's relatively cheap for new corps to start up.

[*] Highway nodes. These simply emit a "highway" effect in a certain radius and you can chain them to build highways on gamma. Uses both bandwidth and energy, like all buildings. Heavily in development, no specifics available yet.[/*]

This is a huge quality of life improvement for Gamma, how do you envisage it will impact the bandwidth of a terminal?

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Along those same lines for an added perk we could get mining towers? 

A field spawns we put a mining tower over the field.

We power them with: direct energy feed w/ transfers, energy cells, or hooking it up to the network.

No reinforced timer.

The tower would have a cargo bay.  T1 100U,T2 300U, T3 900U.  Once the cargo of the tower is full it stops mining.  Till the cargo is picked up.

If the tower is destroyed it drops the minerals inside the cargo.

I am against mining towers that directly deposit ore into hangers.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Ville wrote:

Along those same lines for an added perk we could get mining towers? 

A field spawns we put a mining tower over the field.

We power them with: direct energy feed w/ transfers, energy cells, or hooking it up to the network.

No reinforced timer.

The tower would have a cargo bay.  T1 100U,T2 300U, T3 900U.  Once the cargo of the tower is full it stops mining.  Till the cargo is picked up.

If the tower is destroyed it drops the minerals inside the cargo.

I am against mining towers that directly deposit ore into hangers.

This would be a HUGE Quality of Life boost for Gamma! big_smile

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

As Anni pointed out, if the reactor fuel is not mined/sent directly then that means the size of the reactor's buffer is irrelevant because people can store an infinite amount of it and load it into the reactor at will.

The goal of this mechanic is not to add another mindless mineral grinding mechanic just to keep your base alive, but to introduce vulnerabilities that are easy to replace if you have a real presence there. Or in other words, it's against fully automated deathstars that live on and keep working while you're away for weeks.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

If I'm away for weeks, how do I put the fuel in the fuel bay? smile

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:

As Anni pointed out, if the reactor fuel is not mined/sent directly then that means the size of the reactor's buffer is irrelevant because people can store an infinite amount of it and load it into the reactor at will.

The goal of this mechanic is not to add another mindless mineral grinding mechanic just to keep your base alive, but to introduce vulnerabilities that are easy to replace if you have a real presence there. Or in other words, it's against fully automated deathstars that live on and keep working while you're away for weeks.

Are you saying the tower would automatically send resources to the base on the island regardless of where it is?  I won't have to haul out there grab it than put it in the reactor? whuh?

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40 (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2014-05-14 14:52:44)

Re: Gamma revamp testing

DEV Zoom wrote:
  • Only 3 terminals per island.
    ...

  • Reactors will not generate energy on their own. Instead, we will introduce a new underground resource, which can only be exploited by a building, but it does this passively over time...

How exactly do you see this resource as working? Is it like a current raw material fields which will require scanning down once existing "deposits" are exploited? Is it island wide so you can plonk down a building anywhere and draw energy from the ground?

With certain mechanics the number of terminals per island/buildings per island could be restricted by using the threshold for the energy resource on the island rather than imposing a hard limit. I'm not a fan of hard limits.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Ville wrote:

Are you saying the tower would automatically send resources to the base on the island regardless of where it is?  I won't have to haul out there grab it than put it in the reactor? whuh?

Correct, your only responsibility would be to take down/replace towers on depleted fields, or rebuild destroyed ones. The rest happens on its own.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Why go though the trouble of building a large expensive time consuming base when i can just drop a standard terminal as you cant kill it for 12 days and standard thermals are cheep. No way to keep people from leaving as a term cant be placed near it and cant be terriformed in. Natural terrain bases can be build in such a way as to be unbreakable, if the 'Auto mining towers are vital for a base to work then theirs no point in having the base in the first place as you have this big weakness that will make your base Defenses worthless. Need more info to make better assessments.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

How exactly do you see this resource as working? Is it like a current raw material fields which will require scanning down once existing "deposits" are exploited? Is it island wide so you can plonk down a building anywhere and draw energy from the ground?

With certain mechanics the number of terminals per island/buildings per island could be restricted by using the threshold for the energy resource on the island rather than imposing a hard limit. I'm not a fan of hard limits.

The resource would be generated in fields that have to be scanned just like normal minerals, the difference is that there would be a lot more fields.

And you're right that the hard limit on terminals might not be needed besides the other rules, we'll see.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Goffer wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

[*] Buildings can only be deployed within a certain radius of a terminal. Suggested radius: 1km. Exceptions: mining outpost, command relay, and the planned highway node.[/*]

For obvious reason the exception needs to be extended to energy distribution towers (energy transmitter and energy backbone)

Right, edited my post, thanks.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

Basically these changes hope to:

Make gamma roamable

Give ypy something to shoot to force people to undocm and defend their island

Prevent walled off teleports

Prevent turret / terraform spam.

For the most part it does it.

Zoom: the reason bases need to die when deconstructed is currently they are very cheap to move. This creates two problems, first mining is 100% safe on gamma with them and second you can drop a base terraform, pick it up and move it and do the same thing. This could prevent terraform degrading over a larger area than intended.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

Can anyone Use the wall sections on gamma?  Like put a wall down, then compile it.  Because right now the T3 turrets shoot further than players.  If the players can not create cover than these gamma bases won't be able to be attacked.

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

peanutbutter wrote:

Why go though the trouble of building a large expensive time consuming base when i can just drop a standard terminal as you cant kill it for 12 days and standard thermals are cheep. No way to keep people from leaving as a term cant be placed near it and cant be terriformed in. Natural terrain bases can be build in such a way as to be unbreakable, if the 'Auto mining towers are vital for a base to work then theirs no point in having the base in the first place as you have this big weakness that will make your base Defenses worthless. Need more info to make better assessments.

+1 The plateus of yellow islands will make Those bases with natural choke points be optimal!

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

I still omitted some things from the original post because they kinda hang in the air:

1. Nerf turrets a bit (directly or indirectly the boosters), mostly regarding their extremely long ranges.
2. Deployable walls could be destroyed by normal weapons, but the damage would be propagated along the wall to multiple neighboring wall tiles. This would make it harder to just simply cut a hole into a wall.
3. Gates on the wall. The easiest way would be to do another type of wall tiles that ask for a code like field containers and open up for a set time.

If you agree with any of these I'll include it in the first post.

Re: Gamma revamp testing

You didn't answer the question.  Can walls be deployed by an attacker?

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Re: Gamma revamp testing

My thoughts:

  • The "resouce mining towers gather should not be something depletable, but a constant flow of X energy credits per tile covered by a mining tower. overlapping tower mining zones wil not add. just like overlapping highway nodes wont grant double speed buff

  • power grid changes:
    - Short range nodes don't have outgoing connections, they just emmit power to everything in their range. No "Flow" of power necessary here, and no need to have accumulators built into each of them.
    - long range nodes are the ones that have a really long range and need to be connected to a recieving node, which is either another long range one, or a short range AoE emitter. no flow necessary. outgoing connections are limited.
    - only "battery nodes" and "Reactors" store energy, and batteries keep remote outposts alive if the power highway was cut off somewhere.

  • Repair nodes
    similar to short range power nodes, they do not need to be connected to repair stuff in their range. they automatically select targets, a priority list can be defined by the manager
    These nodes also will automatically grow concrete layer around them to keep land erosion and plants out of the base.last but nto least, they also repair walls just like deployable wall repair units.

  • Terminals
    Really, these should start with a low-point version of every facility BUILT IN.

  • Upgrading Buildings
    Please make buildings upgradable, especially the Terminals. If necessary, make sure that a T1 terminal needs exactly the same space as T3 one.

  • Rethink building placement.
    Currently you have to bring something into a location, then pump lots of ammo into it to build a structure, then you can either let it be destroyed, or deconstruct it (again with amo) and get most of the materials + the blueprint back. while IMHO there is a step to much in this system. Especially when you look at Jita's argument. Blueprints should be one-time-use. I don't get CTs for recycling loot either - then why is this in bases?

  • Last but not least: Construction Ammo
    Thinking about the future, where gamma bases want to be build on islands 50 hop's away from anything else - make T1 Terminals build-able with an Ore as ammo.
    Until i move to T2 upgrades, i should not need to bring more then a Mech equipped with a Miner and a construction module and a Terraformer to that remote area. If i have the reseaerch done - i should be able to just drop a terminal flagstone, mine that mineral locally, raise the terminal, dock with it and start building with blueprints i brought and the resources i mine locally and refine with bad efficiency IN that terminal.

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