• DEV
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Topic: NPC aggression

The last live patch accidentally included something we're working on so I'd like to warn you but also ask your opinions.

NPCs have a 300 meter aggro range by default (we're talking about red NPCs).

The new thing is that when you activate certain modules within their sensor range, they will aggress you.

The modules that currently have this effect:
- Sensor amplifier
- Remote sensor amplifier
- Sensor suppressor
- Demobilizer

What this means in practice is that if you want to avoid them noticing you, you can't activate these modules in their sensor range.

This is new and certainly stirs up things a bit. The question is whether this is a good thing or not, and if it is, what modules should be included or left out?

  • JOKE
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Re: NPC aggression

All modules perhaps? If you turn anything on, they will consider it aggressive behaviour and aggress.

Would it kill AFK Alpha 1 mining?

  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

Burial wrote:

Would it kill AFK Alpha 1 mining?

No, this is only about red NPCs. Orange NPCs need to be aggressed directly by locking/attacking them in order to get their attention.

  • JOKE
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Re: NPC aggression

Since when do red nic not attack you within 300m?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

Jita wrote:

Since when do red nic not attack you within 300m?

They do.

Okay, I'll try to be more visual then.

Before:

NPC---You--<300m>----------------------<1000m>  =NPC attacks you

NPC---------<300m>--------------You----<1000m>  =NPC doesn't give a damn

Now:

NPC---You--<300m>----------------------<1000m>  =NPC attacks you no matter what

NPC---------<300m>--------------You----<1000m>  =NPC doesn't give a damn if module not activated

Activate one of the above mentioned modules*:

NPC---------<300m>--------------You*---<1000m>  =NPC attacks you

Note that the 1000m is just an example, not a limit. The limit is the NPC's sensor range, ie. how far away they can see you, like the way you can see them. And that depends on the used robot.

  • CAS
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Re: NPC aggression

Dev proof that even the NPCs in Perp don't give a damn.

INB4 someone else makes this joke.
Zoom, fuuu

  • JOKE
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Re: NPC aggression

so if you activate a module in the npc's sensor range they are gonna come git some.

Can you add modules to it?

If so adding detector and masker would give some much needed balance. Those things pretty much work with impunity on beta right now, adding in some npc love would help.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

Yep, if we add weapons for example, then it's going to be like if they would be alerted by the shots and explosions.

  • *
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Re: NPC aggression

I wrote a ticket and you sent me to this Forum, as stated I could simply undock with a heavy combat, being about 600 to 800m roughly and they swarm me without turning anything on.  I also drove a lithus with only shield on while npc's aggressed and followed me for 1500+ meters and never let go, so it is a bit much.  Its like having rabid dogs attack and truthfully is annoying, good luck getting new players to enjoy that feature when npc's blow them up anytime they try to use a module on there bot.....   

Having more aggressive and responsive npc's is good but not giving them some crack cocaine and letting them loose on players... lol  tone it down a bit in my oppinion

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Re: NPC aggression

Also on another note, if you want to have these Npc's that aggressive then you might want to consider moving some spawns so they are not swarming sap locations, main routs of travel, etc or keep it the way it is and continue to make the game less desirable as you guys have done with the new spark system, and other things in the last year or so.  People always speak out in numbers to say how something is not as good as it used to be but things continue to decline in this game.  Wish it was still the Perpetuum programming from 2 yrs ago sad

  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

Lucian: I tried that myself at Karapyth but I couldn't get them to attack me beyond 300m, unless I activated one of the mentioned modules.

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Re: NPC aggression

well I must have been mistaken probably turned on a SA or something, but either way the aggression range and intensity of the npc aggression is a bit much, but its your game, do with it as you will.  not very easy to use a module and not be within 1k of a npc

  • JOKE
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Re: NPC aggression

and to clarify do you mean sensor range for sure or if your in sensor and view range .. i'm thinking about masking

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
  • CAS
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Re: NPC aggression

I just noticed Sensor Amplifier on this list ... Considering pretty much every non indy, detector, or hauler bot uses one or 2 of these, all the time .... should make things interesting. Walking anywhere on Hoop, Dom, or Hokk with a combat will be quite different.

  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

Jita wrote:

and to clarify do you mean sensor range for sure or if your in sensor and view range .. i'm thinking about masking

View range and sensor range are the same thing ever since the patch that introduced detectors and maskers. Or am I misunderstanding something here?

edit: To clarify, imagine that the NPC is a player, and ask yourself whether he is able to see you (your icon) or not.

  • CIR
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Re: NPC aggression

Do NPCs have the standard detection / masking Values depending on the mechs they are in? Or is it modified by the mods they have on?

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

17 Reply by Tux

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Re: NPC aggression

Zoom .... If you try to make the mechanics too complex it will just confuse people.

to say well the NPC's only keep their aggression after (x) distance if you have (y) module active its too complex..

were talking about simple NPC's they way they are now they are way to aggressive

simply put you should not need to read a manual to understand how to escape from npc's

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

18 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2014-03-15 10:08:33)

  • JOKE
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Re: NPC aggression

Perhaps, for the sake of simplicity, the modules that draw aggro should only be guns?

That could add some interesting game-play dynamics as well such as running away and getting NPCs to aggro your aggressors etc.

  • DoY
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Re: NPC aggression

Sounds nice, however, a list could be extended not only with guns, but also neuts/drains, ecm/supressing, maybe shields.

Have a productive day, runner!
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  • REMEDY
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Re: NPC aggression

just for the notice: this might interfere quite a bit with pvp

  • ETHOS
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Re: NPC aggression

I like more aggressive NPCs.  They are a little to strong right now.  You need to find proper balance.  Good job!

  • JOKE
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Re: NPC aggression

With the modules you have chosen it seems your are trying to limit players kiting NPCs.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

There is no strategic reason behind the chosen modules, these were the ones that were easy to include at first.

That's why I'm asking your opinion about what modules could make this mechanic worthwhile/interesting/needed, if any at all.

24 Reply by Cassius (edited by Cassius 2014-03-15 18:16:18)

  • CAS
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Re: NPC aggression

i'm all for harder is better. With the amounts and placements of NPC spawn locations on Hoop, Dom, and Hokk it is quite difficult to find a possible safe path in some areas, perhaps an interesting dynamic for PvP but also a definite increase in travel difficulty for this game, that is not good. The other thing I noticed while running a lvl 5 mission on Tellesis was these rules pulled NPCs from another mission spawn into the area I was in. this made completing the current objective tougher (np there) but also resulted in the NPCs in the next area NOT being in the correct reqion for me to complete the last objectives. Thats not good.

I like and understand the reasons for these changes, but I don't think its quite working as intended with some problematic side effects ...

And wtf is the Sensor strength on roaming Obs on gamma? Those beasts have consistently displayed values far exceeding the best T4 fits while consistently dropping T3 gear ... point is if an Obs Heavy has an optimal of 880 for lasers, will his sensor strength also be amped up and start chasing my hauling scarab when I get within 999m?

  • DEV
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Re: NPC aggression

Hm maybe it's a case of "too soon"? With the current population a lone player is likely the only target for them most of the time. If things become busier their attention would be more spread out.