Topic: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

There is no public market whatsoever in structures and the main reason is that you need only ever buy one of each because they are all effectively protoypes.

I'd make a T1P necessary for a T1 CT reverse engineering too.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

There is no public market whatsoever in structures and the main reason is that you need only ever buy one of each because they are all effectively protoypes.

I'd make a T1P necessary for a T1 CT reverse engineering too.

i agree with you , especially for buildings

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

I'd say for now the production bonuses are enough incentive to research them, or are they not?

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

DEV Zoom wrote:

I'd say for now the production bonuses are enough incentive to research them, or are they not?

Certainly that is an incentive. If you have gamma ambitions, however, the main incentive is that there are none on the public market. There is no incentive for a player to build them for market because every building is a prototype.

If I want to sell MPC buildings I would only ever sell one of each building to each corp with gamma ambitions because whatever the tech level they'd just RE it and get a CT.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Yeah, the factory bonus is not that much if you already have high enough efficiency, and you don't need the prototyping bonus here (if you have access to reversable buildings somehow). We might bring in building prototypes later, but certainly not for this patch yet.

6 (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2013-07-13 20:11:06)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Heliaso wrote:

i agree with you , especially for buildings

Yes, definitely. When I mentioned T1P I was thinking only for buildings.

Zoom wrote:

We might bring in building prototypes later.

That's good. Would have to careful with proto bonuses though if, indeed, it was felt they were necessary.

[Late Edit] On the subject of incentives to research MPC and by extension go and do stuff in game to acquire kernals, If prototypes were required for MPC CTs, having a personal and corporate item researched would save a HUGE amount of materials.

7 (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2013-07-13 20:18:34)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

i have to agree. easpecially for gamma structures its totaly needed for prototypes. the ppl that have the tech want to sell their buildings and not their tech for everybody to have.

on the other hand this will make structures a lot more expensive. as long as we keep the ct degration we have atm. so this might want to be overlooked then again as well.

for example:
a terminal has atm ~20% increased cost because of 20points ct degration.

but thats if you reverse a non prototype terminal. so the ct cost is 1x building devided by its uses (minus one or you no longer can produce a new one)
if you have to build a prototype terminal. then the ct costs will be multiplied by 10 (or a bit more for the higher tech ones). that will basicly trible the basic costs of a terminal in basic materials. (without manifacturing wastage).

edit:
ok lud is right. it will go down if you have both personal and corporate research, but still will be a bit much.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

this will make structures a lot more expensive. as long as we keep the ct degration we have atm.

Good thinking, Zortarg. Tweak the CT degradation per cycle. Beautifully simple balancing.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Yeah i have to agree with Zortarg's post & the OP.

Something needs to change other wise we will never see Tier 2-3 Buildings ect. on the market & i see no reason why this should be the case.

as the above 2 posts have said just tweak the CT degradation.

10 (edited by Celebro 2013-07-15 17:35:55)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Yes, makes sense that all items ingame (except charges/ammo) , should have the need for a prototype,even T1 modules at a reduce prototype cost. Why not?

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Celebro wrote:

Yes, makes sense that all items ingame (except charges/ammo) , should have the need for a prototype,even T1 modules at a reduce prototype cost. Why not?

Standard items (not just ammo) are a good starter market, why limit new players even further?

12 (edited by Celebro 2013-07-15 18:49:13)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Doek wrote:
Celebro wrote:

Yes, makes sense that all items ingame (except charges/ammo) , should have the need for a prototype,even T1 modules at a reduce prototype cost. Why not?

Standard items (not just ammo) are a good starter market, why limit new players even further?

I think with the research changes most t1 is much more accessible to newer players ,if T1 prototyping amount is halved and with t1 research new players can easily specialize in a few items.

I am not trying to make it more difficult, I want every player to be able to gain access to research and prototyping at an earlier stage. It takes a while to get into t2, I know I have been there, I felt there was something missing.

Right now there is little incentive to research/prototype for new players.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Celebro wrote:

I am not trying to make it more difficult, I want every player to be able to gain access to research and prototyping at an earlier stage. It takes a while to get into t2, I know I have been there, I felt there was something missing.

I remember this too. It seemed like ages before all those kernals I swallowed got me anything I couldn't just buy or repair (i.e. T2 and above).

Which leads on to something else that needs balancing imo and certainly if T1P was to work: The module drops from NPCs are way way too high. On a single tier 3 mech/heavy spawn on Shinj recently (I was doing Science™!) one hour of farming (killing 243 mobs) got me 299 T1 modules, albeit damaged. This included 38 medium reppers, 71 Medium LCL lasers and 18 other types of modules in varying quantities. I suspect that if I'd gone for a tier 2 spawn I'd have got even more.

That is an insane amount.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

I agree on the module drop amount too. Let them drop plasma, kernels and other stuff but make T1 items same rare as are higher tier items. Right now just by running beacons I get nice enough amount of minerals so I rarely need to do any mining. Working as intended?

15 (edited by Heliaso 2013-07-15 19:32:59)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Burial wrote:

I agree on the module drop amount too. Let them drop plasma, kernels and other stuff but make T1 items same rare as are higher tier items. Right now just by running beacons I get nice enough amount of minerals so I rarely need to do any mining. Working as intended?


No ,don't change it.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Dear god, Please don't change the drop rates!!  Wont somebody think of the children!!  But seriously please don't change that, it indirectly affects other things in game.  Law of unintended consequences and all.  lets just see how the research patch turns out before we start changing everything else all willy nilly.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Martha Stuart wrote:

Dear god, Please don't change the drop rates!!  Wont somebody think of the children!!  But seriously please don't change that, it indirectly affects other things in game.  Law of unintended consequences and all.  lets just see how the research patch turns out before we start changing everything else all willy nilly.

Ok, was just mentioning the introduction of T1P, and T1 drop rates came up. I can see where this is coming from though. These drop rates directly compete with willing new players who want to start as an indy character, so there is certainly a problem here.

RIP PERPETUUM

18 (edited by Heliaso 2013-07-15 22:45:14)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

If you can produce t4 modules , you produce your t1 modules yourself , you will not buy them on the market , and if you remove t1 loot, recycling will become useless.

19 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-07-16 04:25:42)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Heliaso wrote:

recycling will become useless.

^^ this

Nobody produces T1, you just loot it off the field from beacons or ratting, and use it to build T2.  T1 is the "plankton" of the industrial world.  It helps in all aspects of industry from the bottom up.  From recycling for mats, selling for NIC, using it to produce T2, or just using it as free gear to use when starting out.  It is the beginning of the whole system.  Hence why it's NPC seeded.

New indy players wont make much money selling T1, but if its easy for them to get decent amounts of T1, and turn it into T2, they will make money selling that.  Even vets use T2 gear in higher EP builds.  One of my favorite builds is almost all T2.  Not to mention that large scale producers will by large quantities of T2 to make T3-T4.  I would gladly buy all my T2 gear, instead of having to build T1 -> T2.  That would save major amounts of time for me, and would also allow new players to sell something to the open market with reliable demand.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Heliaso wrote:

recycling will become useless.

No, it will just become less used.

Martha Stuart wrote:

Nobody produces T1 ...

I do, lots of it. I can build stuff when I'm not logged on.

Martha Stuart wrote:

New indy players wont make much money selling T1 ...

I make nearly enough to buy an ICE every month selling T1 at just Daoden - and I built 90% of it. I've only been doing this for the last four months and we all know what population and activity has been during that period.
                                                                                       

Look, this came up in response to a suggestion for T1P. If T1P was introduced drop rates would need to be balanced.

Personally, I think they need a re-balance anyway. Those numbers I put in post #13 are stupidly high.

21 (edited by Martha Stuart 2013-07-16 15:10:13)

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

wow, my bad.  I never produce T1 I just get it from drops and turn it into mats or T2 gear.  So that changes things (I just assumed everyone does what I do smile ), but I still think that the drop rates, if changed, shouldn't be changed drastically.

Your secret is out Ludlow,  I shall now compete smile

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

Martha Stuart wrote:

Your secret is out Ludlow,  I shall now compete smile

Couple of confessions: I sell every type of assault and light bot at Daoden too and my revenue is about 3-4mill per day so at today's prices not quite an ICE.

Nevertheless only about a third of revenue is bots the rest is just T1 stuff - and I make every module in the game (some of which I have yet to sell even one of!) Would be interesting to see the impact if someone did the same at TMA or ICSA too.

Re: Is it time to introduce prototype MPC?

well stocking the shelves b4 the game goes on steam might be a good idea... help the noobs & make some $$$ smile