Topic: Shooting plants

The request of being able to shoot plants with your weapons probably dates back to the closed beta days. So far it wasn't possible due to how the combat and targeting system was built up.

However we're continuously refactoring and optimizing old code (basically that's the main reason why things randomly break after a patch, even if we seemingly didn't do anything to that feature), and it just happens that we could now easily implement the shooting of plants.

The questions where we need your feedback:

1. Would shooting plants bring anything else into the game other than griefing?

2. As walls are also internally plants, you would be able to shoot them with your weapons too. Do you think that this is a problem with how things are currently set up, or do we need some HP balancing etc.?

2 (edited by Gharl Incognito 2013-03-25 20:49:54)

Re: Shooting plants

It would make chemical and plasma bombs useless unless you wanted to up their damage radius significantly.  Having very high radius chemical bombs is a good thing in my opinion.  Plants are a commodity that can be a part of corp PvP.

Maybe a good time to remove wall decay and give modular walls more of a reason to exist?

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Re: Shooting plants

Gharl Incognito wrote:

Maybe a good time to remove wall decay and give modular walls more of a reason to exist?

I don't think that would be a good idea. If walls wouldn't decay, islands would be littered with wall fragments because noone would bother to destroy them if they can simply go past them.

4 (edited by Celebro 2013-03-25 21:21:50)

Re: Shooting plants

DEV Zoom wrote:

1. Would shooting plants bring anything else into the game other than griefing?

Yes I can finally shoot my way through a blocked entrance, which is much easier than carrying bombs around all day. Should take you longer to shoot plants and clear an area, so a higher hp would be a good idea. Griefing would just be added content , which I am not against and would bring more stuff to do in a sandbox game.

DEV Zoom wrote:

2. As walls are also internally plants, you would be able to shoot them with your weapons too. Do you think that this is a problem with how things are currently set up, or do we need some HP balancing etc.?

Wall shooting would be a problem for defenders, might need a hp balance, taking everything into account there are ways to shoot walls anyways so I think it is way better to be able to shoot walls directly.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Shooting plants

Increase plants hp and let us shoot them. Remove chemo bombs at all or increase thier radius and radius only.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
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Re: Shooting plants

+1 for griefing alpha symbionts.

7 (edited by Celebro 2013-03-25 22:40:52)

Re: Shooting plants

Make a warning for shooting plants on alpha, and flag you automatically for pvp.


Edit: even easier need to pvp flagged to shoot plants on alpha.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Shooting plants

Alpha shooting is an interesting question. Sure, PvP-flag someone who shoots a plant, but will that help anyone who sits in a harvester bot and gets griefed by a pimped heavy mech? Imagine said guy locking plants which immediatelly get butchered one after the other. Repeat until ragequit.

9 (edited by Celebro 2013-03-25 23:03:55)

Re: Shooting plants

DEV Zoom wrote:

Alpha shooting is an interesting question. Sure, PvP-flag someone who shoots a plant, but will that help anyone who sits in a harvester bot and gets griefed by a pimped heavy mech? Imagine said guy locking plants which immediatelly get butchered one after the other. Repeat until ragequit.



Oh well that's life I guess. I could do that with a symbiont mk2 right now and grief someone following them around until they get bored, but I would consider that a breach in the EULA to constantly grief some until they quit.

Anyways it's a sandbox pvp game,  don't know how far you're willing to take this line of reasoning, even in alpha you should protect your plants, why not? Join a corp or look for a peaceful patch of plants, it a multi-player game after all.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Shooting plants

If it costs 10k NIC in ammo to kill a plant with 5k NIC worth of raw mats, then its balanced; if its reversed, were the ammo cost is significantly less then the griefing, than it's broken.

Not to mention that flagged pimped mech soould also get honorable mention in general chat, and could easily spark some nice PVP on the alpha islands.

Basically, give plants a small low surface area, but not so many HP's.

Re: Shooting plants

Celebro wrote:

Oh well that's life I guess. I could do that with a symbiont mk2 right now and grief someone following them around until they get bored, but I would consider that a breach in the EULA to constantly grief some until they quit.

Yeah, that's what we definitely won't do, because it's impossible to prove unless the victim has a video recording of it. We either allow it and face all the effects (positive and negative) or don't allow it at all.

Arga: now that's something we can work with smile

12 (edited by Celebro 2013-03-25 23:19:10)

Re: Shooting plants

Arga wrote:

If it costs 10k NIC in ammo to kill a plant with 5k NIC worth of raw mats, then its balanced; if its reversed, were the ammo cost is significantly less then the griefing, than it's broken.

Some heavy plant hunting could raise the organic market price, make sure ammo does too, but anyhow that's sounds reasonable.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Shooting plants

DEV Zoom wrote:

Alpha shooting is an interesting question. Sure, PvP-flag someone who shoots a plant, but will that help anyone who sits in a harvester bot and gets griefed by a pimped heavy mech? Imagine said guy locking plants which immediatelly get butchered one after the other. Repeat until ragequit.

Thats exactly the kind of action that makes people form relations with eachother and generally add fully player-generated gameplay content.

I'd say adding targetable and shootable plants to alpha is definitely a way to go.

Re: Shooting plants

Celebro wrote:
Arga wrote:

If it costs 10k NIC in ammo to kill a plant with 5k NIC worth of raw mats, then its balanced; if its reversed, were the ammo cost is significantly less then the griefing, than it's broken.

Some heavy plant hunting could raise the organic market price, make sure ammo does too, but anyhow that's sounds reasonable.

Supply and demand should cause the price of ammo to rise, but even if they are baking thier own ammo, the price of the plants will go up and make the ammo that much more expensive anyway. Of course, if you want to really split hairs, you could shoot plants that aren't needed for the ammo type your using....  <.<

But, even so, the small hit surface is going to mean a lot of missing, which was really frustrating when trying to shoot cans, and would make repeated griefing of a harvester on alpha irritating.

As a side note ... <.<  symbiots can carry weapons  >:)

TRAP!!!

Re: Shooting plants

Well shooting plants will make going thru some terrain easier but at the same time in alpha, yes, u can grief ppl with that mechanic in place.    If you add that mechanic to all islands, all the work in making alpha 1 newbie friendly just went down the drain.   If applies to alpha 2 and above don't see why not except the issue with beta walls like it was mentioned.  Gamma islands that would be just  awesome, get around that annoying tree that wasn't there yesterday tongue .

Re: Shooting plants

Is that possible to make shootable non-harvestable plants only?

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Shooting plants

Sounds pretty pointless all in all.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: Shooting plants

+1 to shooting plants but please give a buff to chem bombs in aoe explosion range (make it like 250-400m tongue )

But i kinda agree with syndic. if this takes more than a day of coding... who cares.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: Shooting plants

As Zoom said, they are reworking code anyway so the question is - should or should not they include that functionality.

Half of work on implementing that feature will be copy-paste from any other shootable object, then just adapt it (throw out everything useless)

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Shooting plants

Yes to shooting plants.

Yes to PvP flag for shooting plants.

No to increasing plant HP. They are used for cover in PvP a lot and I think that their HP are nicely balanced for that purpose.

Re: Shooting plants

I'd spend more time on putting ewar & enwar into killmails then shooting plants.

People actually give a f*ck about killmails and killmail whoring. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Shooting plants

in generally, if it can be done easy then i would say yes do it.

but in general i think its no good idea on alpha. one true thing is that there are always stupid ppl. and there will at least be one who will be running around alpha killing plants like hell. in alpha you are under syndicate protection. so platnts might have the same big_smile

for beta and gamma i would say yes this is very good and nessessary.
walls and wall repair nodes will need a significant boost then, but thats another thing that is easy to to.
in the long run we will need way better stuff to handle plants on gamma, and a lot stuff have already been sugested, but for now i think this is a good solution for now.

Re: Shooting plants

Syndic wrote:

I'd spend more time on putting ewar & enwar into killmails then shooting plants.

People actually give a f*ck about killmails and killmail whoring. lol

Obviously this thread is not about killmails, if they can change to shooting plants, whilst stumbling on the code, I am all for the change.

RIP PERPETUUM

24 (edited by Syndic 2013-03-28 13:22:46)

Re: Shooting plants

Certainly Celebro, but I wouldn't get too carried away with dreams of people waging plant-wars on each other by killing helioptris/prismo/triand on alpha/beta. Nobody harvests on beta anyway, and its a case of too-much-effort-too-little-gain on alpha. Resources are plenty on gamma as it is. It's another micro-feature we'll nod our heads and say it sounds cool, then never(if ever) actually put it to use. 

It's quite handy for blowing yourself a passage tho.

Having ewar/enwar killmails is still more important by leaps and bounds to most people playing the game then a lot of stuff they're putting out. EVE has POS, EWAR, ENWAR on killmails. People compete in DPS on POS killmails and make a minigame out of it. Some people get a pound of coke and spend a weekend setting up 70 POS's.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Shooting plants

Screw kill-mails, I want Research 2.0 first.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086