Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Merkle wrote:
Lemon wrote:

Yea Merkle *** you for have friends.  *Goes off Crying....

Its ok..... You can come hang out with my friends. Your friends didnt want to show up

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

77 (edited by Merkle 2013-03-05 22:51:47)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Lemon wrote:

Its ok..... You can come hang out with my <friends>. Your friends didnt want to show up


Screenshot wars a new game to play!

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Merkle wrote:
Lemon wrote:

Its ok..... You can come hang out with my friends. Your friends didnt want to show up


Screenshot wars a new game to play!

Lemon:2
Merkle: 0
yarr

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Its like playing with your little brother, you always let him win.  Makes him feel special.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Merkle wrote:

Its like playing with your little brother, you always let him win.  Makes him feel special.


The Gifter
Top  Killer 2012
01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle
Scarab Kill Count - 8

wink

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

cool

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

There's very little thought or structure in the way Gamma is concepted. Basically spam turrets in correct order with correct terraforming to make it mathematically impossible for the whole server to get in if they band up together. Then proceed to get your gew face on, comfortable in safety.

Never thought I'd say it but at least the sovgrind in EVE makes sense. It's boring, but it makes sense. Gamma gives more of a feeling like "HAVE FREE TOYZ PLZ PLZ PLZ DONT UNSUB".

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Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

I've worked hard to artifact in peace.

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Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Sadly this is how it has always been.   

I will disagree however with the sov grind, well I guess it depends on when you were talking about sov grind.

The system we have now is more like the OLD sov system.  Drop a load of pos'es and basically make your hostels grind themselves out.  As it just takes SO long to do anything. 

HOWEVER, changing things NOW as other have said, would result in MAJOR imbalances later in the game.   Many players have tried to influence the system to meet there needs as they see fit.  EI: When you have the numbers in the game you WANT it to be easier to kill bases, and vice versa.

I will leave this up to the Dev's to change things do I have a voice yes, but it should always be a small one.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Things have to change now rather than later, because later will be too late. Imbalances will level off in time.

RIP PERPETUUM

86 (edited by Syndic 2013-03-05 23:32:24)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Most people just comitted ritual suicide trying to fuel so many towers. Fuel blocks were an awesome invention.

EDIT:
Plus I don't remember EVE ever letting you physically wall off jumpgates, but then again I dont remember a lot of details from those days.

EVE does have convenience stuff like jump bridge POS's, titan-bridges, etc. Dreads going siege green is always a welcome sight for posbashing. Perp just doesn't have that side of the infrastructure to support a meatgrinder war of attrition vs turrets.

Also, EVE streamlined their system eventually.

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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

87 (edited by Merkle 2013-03-05 23:56:25)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Indeed they did, but they DO have basic safe zones, its just a bit less save, a small bit.

As to the ritual suicide, its amazing for the years that they had them there population still increased.  (Years without blocks)

As for the walls, that would be the difference between 2D and 3D.

(Eve did have a system, just I'm sure zero of you would remember it, it was quickly removed do to lag.)


Edit:

Also Eve really doesn't require guns on gates as in all reality all of your "assets" can never really be killed, they can only be locked away.  Not so much in this game where all your assets can be completely wiped due to a terminal being killed.  The Risk factor grows exponentially.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

88 (edited by Dazamin 2013-03-06 00:08:34)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

The difference in Eve, and it was something I argued for here, is that its the players responsibility to defend, not structures you build (Yes in Eve POSes have guns, but tbh even with players gunning they're not particularly effective against a fleet). Terraforming and base building are good ideas, but the current implementation needs looking at.

EDIT: I guess bubbling gates is a similar (although much less effective) way of delaying access to systems.

DOUBLEEDIT:

Merkle wrote:

Also Eve really doesn't require guns on gates as in all reality all of your "assets" can never really be killed, they can only be locked away.  Not so much in this game where all your assets can be completely wiped due to a terminal being killed.  The Risk factor grows exponentially.

This is why I was surprised they went this way, as being able to lose large amounts of assets fairly quickly promotes risk adverse gameplay.

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

What have you all done to my thread?

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Mash Boden wrote:

What have you all done to my thread?

Made it better, You're welcome

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Dazamin wrote:

The difference in Eve, and it was something I argued for here, is that its the players responsibility to defend, not structures you build (Yes in Eve POSes have guns, but tbh even with players gunning they're not particularly effective against a fleet). Terraforming and base building are good ideas, but the current implementation needs looking at.

EDIT: I guess bubbling gates is a similar (although much less effective) way of delaying access to systems.

DOUBLEEDIT:

Merkle wrote:

Also Eve really doesn't require guns on gates as in all reality all of your "assets" can never really be killed, they can only be locked away.  Not so much in this game where all your assets can be completely wiped due to a terminal being killed.  The Risk factor grows exponentially.

This is why I was surprised they went this way, as being able to lose large amounts of assets fairly quickly promotes risk adverse gameplay.


These bases are not effective vs a fleet. Its game that can't field a fleet. No point dumbing down mechanics to make a gamma base that's well defended be able to be dropped by twenty guys.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Jita wrote:

These bases are not effective vs a fleet. Its game that can't field a fleet. No point dumbing down mechanics to make a gamma base that's well defended be able to be dropped by twenty guys.

This is the entire point that everyone seems to want to look away from for the time being.  Hell, even the Dev's are thinking this way, backed up by several posts.

This all goes back to this isnt a gamma problem this is a PEOPLE problem.  Solve the People problem and you will solve alot of these little issues that are cropping up all over the game.

Now all I'm waiting on this the next few posts explaining why we have to change gamma as that is the root cause of not having people in the game, which is FAR FAR FAR from the truth at best.

I fail to see how new players come into the game and jump RIGHT to gamma and say "well there's gamma its too easy to defend, too easy to make stuff at, the hell with this game its sucks".

No they roll into alpha get bored after a few weeks, decide they don't want a corp to mess around with and then they just leave. 

The Dev's know this, that would be why they are working on making missions "better", and the research "better".  Thus giving the newer players more of a opportunity to expand what they can do, faster, and you have a mission system to back that up.

The community seems to want to run in circles, thankfully the Dev team seems to of figured this out, and are working in the right direction.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Merkle wrote:
Jita wrote:

These bases are not effective vs a fleet. Its game that can't field a fleet. No point dumbing down mechanics to make a gamma base that's well defended be able to be dropped by twenty guys.

This is the entire point that everyone seems to want to look away from for the time being.  Hell, even the Dev's are thinking this way, backed up by several posts.

This all goes back to this isnt a gamma problem this is a PEOPLE problem.  Solve the People problem and you will solve alot of these little issues that are cropping up all over the game.

Now all I'm waiting on this the next few posts explaining why we have to change gamma as that is the root cause of not having people in the game, which is FAR FAR FAR from the truth at best.

I fail to see how new players come into the game and jump RIGHT to gamma and say "well there's gamma its too easy to defend, too easy to make stuff at, the hell with this game its sucks".

No they roll into alpha get bored after a few weeks, decide they don't want a corp to mess around with and then they just leave. 

The Dev's know this, that would be why they are working on making missions "better", and the research "better".  Thus giving the newer players more of a opportunity to expand what they can do, faster, and you have a mission system to back that up.

The community seems to want to run in circles, thankfully the Dev team seems to of figured this out, and are working in the right direction.

+1

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Merkle wrote:
Jita wrote:

These bases are not effective vs a fleet. Its game that can't field a fleet. No point dumbing down mechanics to make a gamma base that's well defended be able to be dropped by twenty guys.

This is the entire point that everyone seems to want to look away from for the time being.  Hell, even the Dev's are thinking this way, backed up by several posts.

This all goes back to this isnt a gamma problem this is a PEOPLE problem.  Solve the People problem and you will solve alot of these little issues that are cropping up all over the game.

Now all I'm waiting on this the next few posts explaining why we have to change gamma as that is the root cause of not having people in the game, which is FAR FAR FAR from the truth at best.

I fail to see how new players come into the game and jump RIGHT to gamma and say "well there's gamma its too easy to defend, too easy to make stuff at, the hell with this game its sucks".

No they roll into alpha get bored after a few weeks, decide they don't want a corp to mess around with and then they just leave. 

The Dev's know this, that would be why they are working on making missions "better", and the research "better".  Thus giving the newer players more of a opportunity to expand what they can do, faster, and you have a mission system to back that up.

The community seems to want to run in circles, thankfully the Dev team seems to of figured this out, and are working in the right direction.

So why has it taken three years and the 'people' problem is still not solved? People have been making this population argument for all that time, meanwhile the pop has remained low and game mechanics don't work properly, but its ok because they would in a theoretical universe where Perp had thousands of people online...

95 (edited by Syndic 2013-03-06 19:58:59)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Quite simply there is no reason why a group of players needs more then 1 island turreted up to the balls, and consequently there's no reason why another group would be bothered to go over there and fight turrets for 4-5 hours because - drumroll - they already have everything they need on 1 island.

Also population will not solve turret spamming; it will either make it a waste of time to put them down, or we will all adapt and spam more turrets to make up for the extra numbers.

It's simply not thought out properly for long term.

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96 (edited by Celebro 2013-03-06 20:17:56)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Syndic wrote:

Quite simply there is no reason why a group of players needs more then 1 island turreted up to the balls, and consequently there's no reason why another group would be bothered to go over there and fight turrets for 4-5 hours because - drumroll - they already have everything they need on 1 island.

Do we really need a reason to blow up turrets and btw I need helio/imentium there's none in rhaoshan.

Syndic wrote:

Also population will not solve turret spamming; it will either make it a waste of time to put them down, or we will all adapt and spam more turrets to make up for the extra numbers.

It's simply not thought out properly for long term.


Good, go ahead turret spam the hell out of gamma, and good luck getting to the ore fields.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Syndic wrote:

Quite simply there is no reason why a group of players needs more then 1 island turreted up to the balls, and consequently there's no reason why another group would be bothered to go over there and fight turrets for 4-5 hours because - drumroll - they already have everything they need on 1 island.

Also population will not solve turret spamming; it will either make it a waste of time to put them down, or we will all adapt and spam more turrets to make up for the extra numbers.

It's simply not thought out properly for long term.

its not that they have already tried that, yet it resulted in "you need to access all islands to build and equip a single robot"

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Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

98 (edited by Jita 2013-03-06 20:41:55)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Celebro wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Quite simply there is no reason why a group of players needs more then 1 island turreted up to the balls, and consequently there's no reason why another group would be bothered to go over there and fight turrets for 4-5 hours because - drumroll - they already have everything they need on 1 island.

Do we really need a reason to blow up turrets and btw I need helio/imentium there's none in rhaoshan.

Syndic wrote:

Also population will not solve turret spamming; it will either make it a waste of time to put them down, or we will all adapt and spam more turrets to make up for the extra numbers.

It's simply not thought out properly for long term.


Good, go ahead turret spam the hell out of gamma, and good luck getting to the ore fields.

Actually ore fields don't pop on impassable terrain so its theoretically possible to put down one mining base and make all ore fields appear in a small area next to them if ofc you have enough time and exploited nic lol

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

99

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Syndic wrote:

Quite simply there is no reason why a group of players needs more then 1 island turreted up to the balls, and consequently there's no reason why another group would be bothered to go over there and fight turrets for 4-5 hours because - drumroll - they already have everything they need on 1 island.

Also population will not solve turret spamming; it will either make it a waste of time to put them down, or we will all adapt and spam more turrets to make up for the extra numbers.

It's simply not thought out properly for long term.

It doesn't really matter how the devs decide to spread the minerals throughout the islands, because groups / blocks will be formed in order to secure the needed amount of islands for complete mineral security.

making beta only minerals doesn't solve this issue because of gate scouts, probes, walls etc... you can acquire resources from any beta in relative safety if done properly.

The driving purpose of territory control is for prestige, eeping, and wealth.

You can create "artificial" conflict by spreading resources thinly over all of the islands thus creating the desire for power block formation. 

in the other game a siege could last for weeks if not months to take a system if successful. the same time lines are present here where you will not walk into a well fortified island and do anything in a few hours. This is because a well defended Gamma will take months to establish .. in the other game it took months to establish a well secured sovereignty in systems.

The only problem i see here is that people whine about things taking to long ... or its not worth doing...

dont forget this is NOT a THEME PARK players drive the economy and political landscape through conflict.

if you cant be arsed to shoot turrets for hours or days im sorry gamma is not for you.
if you need to be handed pvp on a platter im sorry this game is not for you

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

100 (edited by Tux 2013-03-06 20:45:58)

Re: Couple Changes I think would help.

Jita wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Quite simply there is no reason why a group of players needs more then 1 island turreted up to the balls, and consequently there's no reason why another group would be bothered to go over there and fight turrets for 4-5 hours because - drumroll - they already have everything they need on 1 island.

Do we really need a reason to blow up turrets and btw I need helio/imentium there's none in rhaoshan.

Syndic wrote:

Also population will not solve turret spamming; it will either make it a waste of time to put them down, or we will all adapt and spam more turrets to make up for the extra numbers.

It's simply not thought out properly for long term.


Good, go ahead turret spam the hell out of gamma, and good luck getting to the ore fields.

Actually ore fields don't pop on impassable terrain so its theoretically possible to put down one mining base and make all ore fields appear in a small area next to them if ofc you have enough time and exploited nice lol

mineral fields will spawn "anywhere on a gamma island" they will spawn in and around buildings, turrets and on impassable terrain. I have seen this happen many times. the downside of this is that the tiles under the structures contain none of the mineral in the field.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.