Topic: A better Picture

So, back to this gifting accounts, whats a reasonable amount of time for the gift transfer back and forth?  So If I "gift" Lemon my  account when I goto work, then he "gifts" it back to me when I get home is this still unbannable?  Is the window 4, 8 or 10 hours and whats deemed as account sharing anyways?  Does the other person have to bump the other person's account offline for it to be considered sharing?  Vagueness is a good thing but this is a little too vague at this point.

And is taking action aganist violater only nessecary when there is multiple posts on the forums?  Or if there is a petition involved in it? 

I'm really curious to see what the limits are.  I like to play by the rules of the EULA and not purposely exploit the game just to gain a higher advantage over my enemys.

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Re: A better Picture

How many new players Right now would pay the Devs $100 just to get 500K EP character?  What makes you think it is REMOTELY FAIR to think that some veteran players have access to multiple 1Million EP accounts, while the rest have to earn it?  It's not fair to the customers who have to work for it.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

There is no "reasonable amount". If we find that you switch your account too often, you will be warned. If you still keep doing it, you will be banned.

Re: A better Picture

Whats "too often"?  20 minutes?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

4 minutes?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

1 Minute?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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7 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-02-05 02:34:55)

Re: A better Picture

nvm

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: A better Picture

As fast as I can type these reponses?

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

Or just use a proxy. Whoop de f*cking doo.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: A better Picture

This would not be such a big issue, if I didn't give you close to $100 a month.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

Do you know how MANY HOOKERS $100 is?

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

DEV ZOOM  Think of the millions of baby Villes could have died in a rubber coffin, just to support your toaster addiction!

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

13 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-02-05 02:40:27)

Re: A better Picture

none of this would be a problem if the EULA would be adjusted so the devs would be less likely to change their minds every other day on what they will & wont enforce.


What guaranty do we have as players?

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: A better Picture

Doesn't Management suck Dev Zoom?

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

Obi: feel free to suggest a rule that would be fair to both sides AND enforceable.

Re: A better Picture

Ok:

EULA:

We at Avatar Creations don't give a *** what you do with your account.  We will not be held responsible if your *** gets ghanked/snatched/or stolen.  If you are a *** you will not be given your account back and banned.  If you find this unfair goto Hell.

OR

EULA:
Use as Is and enforce it when there are more then 5 forum posts and a petition.

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

Ville: that wouldn't be really fair towards those accounts which actually get hacked/stolen.

18 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-02-05 03:00:25)

Re: A better Picture

DEV Zoom wrote:

Obi: feel free to suggest a rule that would be fair to both sides AND enforceable.

OK THEN.... this section of the EULA should be change from:

It is forbidden to share account details with anyone, trade or sell Perpetuum accounts, in-game items, characters, money, etc in any way outside the game. In this case both the seller's and the buyer's characters and accounts may be terminated by AC.

TO

It is forbidden to share account details with anyone,in-game items, money, etc in any way outside the game. In this case both the seller's and the buyer's characters and accounts may be terminated by AC.
Gifting Accounts to New owners is allowed once every 3 months, However Avatar Creations can no longer guarantee that Accounts Security.

Maybe not those words exactly but you get the idea.

Also any & all future changes to the EULA should be notified in any Patch notes.

Enfocing the EULA on a whim makes your company look REALLY bad & when this goes onto steam you wont get away with it. So what about getting used to doing things the right way now b4 we get to steam smile

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: A better Picture

Okay. So we go the extra mile to "somehow" put a watchdog on all accounts which will "somehow" tell us that an account is used by someone else now. Let's ignore the fact that this is pretty hard to do with dynamic IPs.

But then comes Syndic and tells you to use proxies, and he is right. What then?

Re: A better Picture

See there in lies the problem Zoom, I've been trying to get you to say that for a while!  I'm going to us a little analogy most Americans can understand.  This account gifting is like a robber who breaks into your home, falls down a flight of stairs and becomes paralyzed, he then sues the home owner for his lose of legs and wins $300,000.  You guys took such a stiff stance to this matter 6 monthes ago, but due to low population and inactivity are being bullied into believing that these people who have EXCESSIVE ACCESS to accounts is fair.  Sell or buy one account?  Not a huge deal, but having access to 5 to 10 is that not excessive?

What makes you think this is fair to the new players who come into the game and get gang banged by veterans players using old accounts with dedicated perfect skills?  What fairness does farming new players gear by veterans who multibox accounts they don't own?  *snip*  I am assuming this is a purely money issue.  I've got an idea to help with a little capital injection I will post later, much like the push for ICE.

*edit: Please don't discuss moderation. - DEV Zoom

Steam achievement Unlocked:  Being a Badass
http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/239407
Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
Dev Zoom: Ville can be sometimes so sane it's scary.

Re: A better Picture

Obi Wan's right, right now you're jumping through hoops to keep subs at any cost. Fine, nobody wants to be unemployed.

Rules need to be in black & white without grey areas, otherwise there's no rules. Eula says you can't trade accounts? But you're saying they can? Who's right who's wrong? All it means is you will ban when it's convenient for you and you won't lift a finger when it doesn't.

Black & white. Considering how much "inspiration" you got from CCP and EVE, it's a real shame you didn't get some "inspiration" from their customer support. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: A better Picture

Syndic wrote:

Rules need to be in black & white without grey areas, otherwise there's no rules.

I agree. But there are no clear rules for these issues, at least we couldn't figure any that can be enforced in a black or white manner. Hence the EULA has the current vague rule which we can enforce at our discretion.

Re: A better Picture

How about implementing an Account Auction? Everyone who want to giveaway his account should put it on auction where thov who put an higher bet will take that. All teh money (or just a fee) goes to AC.

Thov who just gave his acc not using such auction will be banneth.

Have a productive day, runner!
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DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

24 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2013-02-05 06:26:41)

Re: A better Picture

DEV Zoom wrote:

Okay. So we go the extra mile to "somehow" put a watchdog on all accounts which will "somehow" tell us that an account is used by someone else now. Let's ignore the fact that this is pretty hard to do with dynamic IPs.

But then comes Syndic and tells you to use proxies, and he is right. What then?

Proof of account sharing is hard i agree

you (AC) has 2 options:

1. Give account "Gifting" / Trading free reign with a small proviso that Excessive trading over a short amount of time can result in landing you in trouble  (first warning then ban??) i recoomend in the future introducing a tracing / official trading function for Alts - Think CCP's eve online)

2. Ban all forms of Account trading / sharing. Hard to prove but when there is proof we show no mercy & use a massive ban hammer.


Lets look at another game. EVE online. CCP understands that people will always want to account / Alt, trade & denying it will only send people onto the black market.

So they made it legal & seen an opportunity to make a little cash on the side (hint hint) in return you the buyer & seller have a safe way to trade ingame monies (if you wish) & the transaction is trackable for the DEVs. If a seller goes to CCP & Says "HEY i was duped into this deal"! CCP looks at the records & goes "our logs show nothing" .... JK tongue But they have proof & their EULA allows for this. the whole community knows where a line of the law is.

THIS IS A GOOD THING.

Pepertuum is right now & in many ways has always been in a state of limbo. You can brake the EULA for one thing But break it on another issue & you get a banned.

1 GM says something is OK Another bans you. (yes im referring to the past but non the less it proves my point).

TLDR: I just want the rules to be clear & enforced one way or the other.
And that ALL members of the community are treated equally.


Edit: In many ways this games smallness has saved it from being exposed to T20 levels of gaming news media coverage of some of its darker chapters in history. Soon tho you may not have this anonymity.

This thread & the other likes it are not to troll or QQ about gifting,  but to warn you in the most Explicit terms we can manage thru this form of communication.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

25 (edited by Mouse Slayer 2013-02-05 06:38:45)

Re: A better Picture

Listen up!

Ill sum this up for you people, so you can understand.



CIR made/based their corp gameplay around groups of accounts that were used by many people on almost an hourly basis.

CIR players logged in and used the sets of best miner accounts so mins were mined all day long.  Different people would take over as needed.

This same gameplay occurred in PvP if it was needed.

These people in CIR advertised to their playerbase that accounts were available for trial or what have you.


Now.... if this wasnt bad enough, this guy, lets call him Syndic, decides it was a great idea to not only brag about this in GC, but to practically dare the community to do something about it.

and, as I recall he was ..... then   ...   he does his usual rage quit.



------------------------

Lets talk about RG now.   Merkles part of this RG gaming community, his old mates gave him their accounts pretty much and who knows how many there are maybe 10, not sure whatever.

Merk plays these accounts himself, and I am sure there is a guest appearance from who knows who from the old school for a night.

He is not basing his entire corps economy or entire corps gameplay around passing accounts around on an hourly basis.


-----

So, lets talk about PHMs crusade against all of this - Vil pushes the limit of seeing what and how much he can get away with here vs. the Devs or whatever, maybe trying impress his old boss, who the heck knows.



He cant see the point that is made over and over and over again by Zoom.  The Devs use their discression and there is nothing all you people can do about that..........  STOP ASKING



--

As a wise man once said, when the cop pulls you over for speeding and you tell him to suck it, you're gonna get a ticket......


dam you people make me upset with your constant silliness



Mouse out...