Topic: Eternal reloading

You with your friend shoting NPC. Unfortunately for you, you're out of ammo right before one you're shooting is about to die. You start to reload, then your friends kill it, reloading failed. You are trying to shoot next one starting with reload, your friends kill it too, reloading failed. You become fuuu until all NPC are down or you manually stop shooting, reload and just then continue - in both ways it's a waste of time and damage.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Eternal reloading

took me a few seconds to realise what your talking about - that dumb and unlogical "cooldown" cycle that happens always your primary target dies?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Eternal reloading

Well, kinda. For some reason, it have more priority than a reloading, so it happens first and moves reloading to the next step.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Eternal reloading

No Anni, this is that dumb an unlogical mechanic that stops module cycling when the target dies.
Apparently this interrupts the reload cycle too, we'll check what we can do.

Re: Eternal reloading

We have looked into this, but it's not a trivial problem. I'll try to explain.

The current mechanic of shutting down modules when the target dies has been implemented on player request. Previously, active modules didn't stop immediately when the target died and they could be "chained" between targets, which could cause a lot of nasty situations, including friendly fire in PvP.

Normally it wouldn't be a big issue, the problems come when you change your primary target in the middle of the reload cycle. In this case we can't really decide what the module should do, stop because your previous target died, or continue because you want to shoot the new one. It's the decision between interrupting everything, or having an extra cooldown cycle, or letting modules chain to the new target.

We could make the module shutdown command delay until the reload process is finished, but this would require a dirty hack which would likely break something else, so we're not sure we want to risk it to fix such a rare problem.

My advice in a situation like this would be to reload manually before you start to shoot another target.

Re: Eternal reloading

the question is - what is that cooldown for?
weapons do not need to cooldown when i manually turn them off -
only when they are like halfway through the "cycle" and the target is killed, it will put in that artifical cycle.

i know that you, contraditing to most other mechanics, do not want to reduce player interaction to simply lock new targets and let the weapons cycle until out of ammo. especially after implementing auto-primary lock.

BUT that extra cycle makes no sense - why not simply finish auto-cycling at the end of the one that is currently in progress?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Eternal reloading

Sorry I don't really know what you're talking about.

Weapon shoots, target dies, cooldown ends, end of story. This cooldown is obviously needed because otherwise a module would not have a cycletime, and you could use it prematurely on another target.

But after a bit of testing I do not see an "artificial extra cycle", whatever that may be.

why not simply finish auto-cycling at the end of the one that is currently in progress?

This is exactly what's happening.

*edit: ok I see what the confusion might be. When I say module cycle is "interrupted" it means a command is sent to stop the module and end the cycle in a cooldown. The problem is that this command is also sent when the module is in the middle of a reload cycle, so reload -> target dies -> stop module -> cooldown -> reload didn't finish so please try reload again. Solving this would require that dirty hack I wrote.

Re: Eternal reloading

i just hope that "Dirty" hack doesn't break something else, like every change in that legacy mechanic did up to now wink

Its indeed just an additional cycle when weapons are reloading that can be reproduced very easily - im pretty sure there was another ocassion where it happens.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Eternal reloading

found the other anoying situation where that "cooldown" cycle happens: harvesting and mining.

thats what i do most nowadays - so plants dieing or tile empty results in error message and an empty cycle.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Eternal reloading

The explanation for that is fairly simple: plants and mineral fields are not entities like robots, so they don't send out a "hey I'm dead now" command. Hence your module only knows that there is nothing anymore on the tile when it tries to do something with it.

I don't know whether it would be possible to stop (or not start) a cycle when the tile gives an error, but we'll see.

Re: Eternal reloading

If we are talking about plants, I'd like to have auto-stop on cargo full for harvesters, but that's an op.

Thing is that it's not that easy t manually reload especially when yu're shoting lots of targets - it's hard to be concentrated on ammo counter mostly. Well, how about guns don't have auto-reloading at all? Much easier t reload them manually when they stopped shooting. other solution can be to separate weapon cycles and reloading cycles somehow, but I don't really knw if that's possible in current mechanics.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

12 (edited by Annihilator 2013-02-02 13:03:51)

Re: Eternal reloading

DEV Zoom wrote:

The explanation for that is fairly simple: plants and mineral fields are not entities like robots, so they don't send out a "hey I'm dead now" command. Hence your module only knows that there is nothing anymore on the tile when it tries to do something with it.

I don't know whether it would be possible to stop (or not start) a cycle when the tile gives an error, but we'll see.

well, a module should not START to cycle when it has no valid target.
Thats true for having no primary lock for a weapon, or for a miner/harvester trying to collect something that is not there.

so, instead of sending a "cancel" command out when the target lock is lost, you should put in a boolean operation between cycle end and next cycle start. don't you do that for range anyway?

ontop of that - dying plants send out a response, since the locked target icon changes from plant to dirt, and obviously, a plant-death animation is triggered. I am aware that plants are no game entities like robots - that the whole reason we cannot shoot the damn things directly.
plants are just three attributes of a ground tile - type, grow stage, cycles - a 24bit bitmap perhaps?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Eternal reloading

Ok upd: if you see that you're low on ammo and start reloading manually, and someone kills your target, your reloading cycle turns in usual weapon cycle, ends and nothing else happens.

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086