1 (edited by Hunter 2012-05-04 16:11:55)

Topic: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Hello everyone. I would like to discuss trials.

This feature can involve more players. Also people can look at environment, and estimate the game. Actually that's enough good as is, but...

Let's look what i can do with trial account?
1) Create free hauler.
2) Create a gate scout.
3) Create free spy for intrusions.
4) Create miner who can drive termis.
5) etc

So... There are real problem with hauling and gatescouts. Combat robot has too low cargo volume, miners extracts "too much" resources. Using of trial accounts helps here.
Gate scouts can be replaced with probes and revamping the entire connection network should fix this too.

I would like to discuss the free trial miners.
Yes, i'm use this too (else another will get advantage on me). But Is it justified? More than that trials can drive termis. Even with high skills i can't mine ores with same efficiency as multiwindow user with trial accounts.

+ problem of trial characters. Trial miner should create new accounts each 15 days.

What can we do? We can start work with ban hammer. But this is a bad and expencive way. And it's really hard to prove because of advanced users can use virtual machines, dedicated computers and other tricks.

IMHO:
1) Trials should be with "frozen" EP count. IE without 1 EP per minute.
2) Trials should not drive mechs and heavies.
3) Trial period should be longer (~30-60 days) or infinite.

TL;DR: Wanna drive a mech? - pay.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

IP tracking and only having one trail account active per IP should solve this for the most part. Even stEVE makes it so if you have a paid account open you can not have a trial account open on the same computer, You can however have as many paid accounts open as you want. Also in stEVE they have limitations to what ships can be trained by pilots.

#4Maybe AC will make the Advanced robotics skill only trainable by paid accounts! And make trials not allowed to go to beta or gamma. I still know people with 5-7 accounts subbed can make an arkhe alt army and lock down an island but they won't be able to do much else but scout those TPs.

Frozen EP would work Hunter, but people might not understand the concept and think they aren't gaining experiance for anything they do get frustrated and leave with out asking questions.

TL:DR
Block advanced robotics skill to trial account users. Problem w/ trial miners solved.

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

Just because you ****ing ****** exploit this system, new players have to suffer? Are you serious, sis?

The only viable option is to allow ONE trial account per IP. And if some players think they must bypass this system, BANHAMMER.

Really .... freezing trial account EP count. I knew you were not the brightest among the PERP players ... but like this ... wow.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

well i think the main problem is not that you run 2 or 3 trials with miners.

the only trial i always used was a compiler bot for the walls quite some time ago...

i personaly think the main problem would be solved if you restrict players that you can log in with 2 trial accounts from one computer.

i see no problem with gate scouts, i see no problem with a sequer as trial. i see no problem with spies.

the only problem i see is haven 4-10 miner trials expoiting resources.
things like these always start to become a problem when somebody throws reason out of the window or his advantage and a lot ppl just follow because they see their disadvantage if they dont do this as well.

trials are not ment for mass use. thats my opinion. do some smaller tasks with them is fine. most ppl pay two or more accounts so why not use one or two trials for minor (not miner) tasks.

so restrict that or just write it in the eula that this is not ok. and if ppl still go with it then hell lets ban them. why not.

but the more easy way wouls simply be to check how many accounts are running on one pc and check on login that there are not more then 2 trials active...

my 5 cents.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Banhammer is a bad way... Process of creating and using trial accounts just should be useless. Only for estimating of gameplay.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

I don't think EP freeze is the way to go.

I think we should limit the training mech/hmech to paid accounts only and put in clear rule which forbids players to use more than 1 trial account per IP.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

So for everyone who is behind one common IP (this is still common in schools etc.) we say sorry, no trial for you?

8 (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-05-04 12:38:10)

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

DEV Zoom wrote:

So for everyone who is behind one common IP (this is still common in schools etc.) we say sorry, no trial for you?

No solution would be perfect here, it's either that or imposing some restrictions on trials (again...)

Regarding restrictions I guess making mech/hmechs and access to beta/gamma paid accounts only would suffice.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

...and I forgot to mention that lots of our users have connections with dynamic IP.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Adjust a game: continents, pbs teleports, npc teleport only between "alpha" locations, etc.
Adjust some rules
Leave trials alone

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

I think we should limit the training mech/hmech to paid accounts only

This is all that is needed.

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

normally in any online game when creating any account whether trial or subbed u have to give at least some of your private data (like full name and so on), don't you?
I, as naive as it may be, always thought that this should restrict mmo players to
a) let them have more than just one trial account
and b) to restrict trials to non subbed persons
(next to reasons concerning diverse questions about law and legality like having to give your true age)
Although it seems that at most times this part is is overlooked and you just need variable email adresses to get around it...

Restricting activated trials themself (even less with freezing their EP) is a bit of a turn off for new players as to why restrictions to trials in perp have already been lifted some time ago (after loooots of discussions).
But starting from the theoretical point that you can't even CREATE a trialaccount because the database tells that there already exists an account (trial or subbed) with your data (and not just that one email adress), there's no need to restrict them left.
You could even say - okay give beginners a chance to try what they want and have up to 3 trials at the same time possible but if you subscribe to one account the others will just run out after trial time if theres no sub for them (still with no possibility to get a new trial after sub).

That way neither new players would get shunned nor trials could be exploited by subbed players (+ you are still able to sub more than one account)...

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

I'm afraid that you didn't understand my point about "frozen EP".
I mean that should be able 20k EP for skills and no more until paid subscription.

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

14 (edited by Hunter 2012-05-04 16:24:02)

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Lucius Marcellus wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

So for everyone who is behind one common IP (this is still common in schools etc.) we say sorry, no trial for you?

No solution would be perfect here, it's either that or imposing some restrictions on trials (again...)

Regarding restrictions I guess making mech/hmechs and access to beta/gamma paid accounts only would suffice.

I have 3 computers at home. My ISP provides me several IP's. I know how to use virtual machines, anonymous proxy and many other things. It's very interesting how is it possible to investigate?

The theory of mutual interests
Why the crybabies wins?
Где Ханя - там победа (с)
DEV Zoom: No need to speculate...

15 (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-05-04 16:30:22)

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

combine ip with private data check - would at least hold those off that don't know how to fake

for those using school or public IP's they just need to tell a GM/DEV that they are an own real person which will get checked by the data entered by account creation and they will be enabled to play even there.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

i wonder why trial needs to be two weeks or longer.

most cases i have seen, the new player either subscribe right off the bat (within 3 days), or they
leave after 2 weeks without any notice.

after next patch, they wont need to spend 2/3rd of their starting EP for navigation either, which means they can haul, scout or mine even more efficiently then they do now. I think that would be a good opportunity to implement some restrictions again (extensionlevels max 5 - no adv. robotics... )

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

The trial account experiment, opening it up, was supposed to create a short F2P environment that would entice new players to join the game.

From the post in the trial section, those that wanted to join knew it shortly after playing, and their only real concern was that they get the remainder of the free days added to their accounts.

What I take away from this is the trial account parameters can't be complicated.

You log in, you play, and you either buy a time-code or you don't.

Making shorter trials isn't going to stop paid players from creating F2P alts for whatever purposes, just slightly more hassle.

Using the 'stick', or punishing them for not paying, is usally less effective then the 'carrot, rewarding them for subscribing.

The first thought is to simply give players an EP incentive for subscribing, like 10k when activating. The trouble with messing around with EP is you either give all players the EP retroactively, or be faced with making an arbitrary cut-off, and causing more grief then the bonus's is worth.

Since there won't be any changes until after PBS drops, other incentives could be available. Like a mission for a free mech, after subscribing, or some faction tokens, or a NIC bonus.

Or, some 'stick' items like paint shop (or goodies shop) only available to paying customers, trial accounts not allowed on gamma (this seems like it would be OK, simply because your not taking anything away from them, as long as this is in from the release of gamma).

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

trials being able to use mechs is stupid. A trial account is a way for some one to get an idea about the game & see if they like it. dont need to get into a mech to find that out.

let them use every thing under mech for the 15 days.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

I really don't think that someone will not sub just because he can't use mechs in the trial period.
The problem of abusing trials (most of it for mining) will even get worse once gamma and PBS is live.
Why risk a riveler MK II in full T4 when you can create limitless trials with cheap termis?
The problem will also grow when (hopefully) we get a solid playerbase, anyone using trial miners. Even random ore spots won't stop it though limit a bit.
Well, a mech-only restriction won't do because there are still afk sequers then which, run 24/7, can extract quite a bit too, if in big numbers.

TL;DR: Limitations to trials should be done to at least stop the mining abuse. Concerning the ingame marketing, the way it is, is just equal to F2P...

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

the problem can be worsen up once it doesnt matter how high your extensions are regarding "how much" you can extract from an ore deposit. Within the new system, it will only affect how fast your are sucking - and that means, more robots (=more trials) can compensate for the lack of EP - just like in PvP.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Really not seeing what's wrong here my trial based termis mining fleet on hersh makes for a refreshing turn  around.

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Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Ville wrote:

Really not seeing what's wrong here my trial based termis mining fleet on hersh makes for a refreshing turn  around.


You're not seeing? Then you either trolling or should open up your eyes. PP isn't starcraft and co. There are character advancement mechanics set in the game core, which are very time/money consuming. Why bother with such stuff then? Simply make an online strategy game of it and let people control as many robots as they want for whatever purpouse they want. Why bother with 10 trial accs, renewing every 2 weeks?
You will never negate the multiaccounting benefits down to zero, but then at least people should sub to have that advantages. Or make it FTP.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Well, summing up the above threads it seems to me most people would think the one trial per person limitation would be a good thing, if we found a way to get around the problems (schools with one ip and virtual machines to circumvent 1 pc limitation).

So ip checking is out of the question, but I think the 1 trial per pc rule actually could do a lot of good. If you want to run 4 virtual machines or have 3 laptops next to your desktop, I would say, go ahead but seeing as how annoying placing 1 laptop next to my desktop is and how much pressure 8 simultaneous perp accounts puts on my fairly high end desktop, let alone 4 virtual machines running perp it seems to me that for 95% of the people the disadvantages outweigh the benefits. If you detect people circumventing the very reasonable 1 trial per person ruling, you can always ban their TRIAL account (banning subbed accounts for somethign liek this is not really a smart idea most people agree), the annoyance of their stuff locked away will make people think twice about trying it again.

TL;DR: 1 trial per person will keep 95% from running huge trial miner fleets even if there exist bothersome ways to circumvent it. Banning the TRIAL accounts of abusers can be an additional reason not to circumvent the system.

Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Yakapao Doherato wrote:
Ville wrote:

Really not seeing what's wrong here my trial based termis mining fleet on hersh makes for a refreshing turn  around.


You're not seeing? Then you either trolling or should open up your eyes. PP isn't starcraft and co. There are character advancement mechanics set in the game core, which are very time/money consuming. Why bother with such stuff then? Simply make an online strategy game of it and let people control as many robots as they want for whatever purpouse they want. Why bother with 10 trial accs, renewing every 2 weeks?
You will never negate the multiaccounting benefits down to zero, but then at least people should sub to have that advantages. Or make it FTP.

Troll Success.

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Dev Zoom: I think its time to confess, Ville is my alt
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Re: [Adjusting] Trial accounts.

Leave as is. What so rewarding winning with a dozen trial accounts and renewing them every 2 weeks? That's so sad.

I play for the challenge, not an easy advantage.

RIP PERPETUUM