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Topic: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

increase the population on beta?
make it more attractive then alpha, to actually move there?

During the last two years - did any of the balancing changes to beta islands manufacturing bonuses result in a positive change for Perpetuum?

AFAIK not. If it did, then for about two weeks, and then the overall player population fell.

If you think that the total destruction of carebear-production on alpha is the way to go, then please start seeding beta outposts with NPC sell orders for Robots and T4 equip.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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  • CIR
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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

what the... ?

dude are you smoking something ?

please make an OP by including some stats on the subject you are talking about.

bk on topic... i think....

whats the matter you dont have enough people buying your stuff ? really man i dont know if you have noticed this but the game population is a little small atm to be complaining about the destruction of alpha carebears.
TOG seem to manage living on alpha no problem.. so maybe its just you.

True Pros make a Podcast to influence the Devs minds, 
The rest of you guys are Hacks tongue

PS. I got my Highways & stopped playing b4 they came in & have never used them! ...... Irony much ? tongue
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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

please make an OP by including some stats on the subject you are talking about.

Myself wrote:

During the last two years - did any of the balancing changes to beta islands manufacturing bonuses result in a positive change for Perpetuum?

the topic starts with a request for data that shows that those repeating measures ever did archieve the desired result.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

4 Reply by Alexander (edited by Alexander 2012-01-12 13:38:02)

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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

Making beta more profitable than alpha has always been the case but the risk will and has always been far greater. That doesn't mean high losses it just means a high chance to lose more than you gain unless your attempt to live on beta is structured, organised and pushes every game mechanic to the limit of almost exploitation.

However blaming issues with player controlled features (Activity based) on the fact that we now get a little less recycled material is a bad point to try and make. Care bears can produce what they like and sell it on the open market. A large beta corp sells internally and to alliance members with little time to produce items for the open market. Like I said, the cost of holding a beta foothold is that you NEED to maintain high production levels even if it's just to keep lots of allies.

Alpha and beta producer can produce the same things. Alpha is slower, takes more resources and more time to gather the resources. Beta is faster, cheaper and requires LOTS of logistics time to make it profitable.

The best balance this game could see is if we had more players and new players joining that aspire to be something rather than having their hopes and dreams shot down by teenage rage and corporate dialogues spilling into general chat.

Anni, while you have a valid point and a valid quest this is certainly not the time for a straw to break the camels back. While alpha production seems to always be made harder where are the "Alpha research is so easy, thank you devs!" post for added high level alpha island spawns? Huh?...

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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

Alexander wrote:

Making beta more profitable than alpha has always been the case but the risk will and has always been far greater. That doesn't mean high losses it just means a high chance to lose more than you gain unless your attempt to live on beta is structured, organised and pushes every game mechanic to the limit of almost exploitation.

However blaming issues with player controlled features (Activity based) on the fact that we now get a little less recycled material is a bad point to try and make. Care bears can produce what they like and sell it on the open market. A large beta corp sells internally and to alliance members with little time to produce items for the open market. Like I said, the cost of holding a beta foothold is that you NEED to maintain high production levels even if it's just to keep lots of allies.

Alpha and beta producer can produce the same things. Alpha is slower, takes more resources and more time to gather the resources. Beta is faster, cheaper and requires LOTS of logistics time to make it profitable.

The best balance this game could see is if we had more players and new players joining that aspire to be something rather than having their hopes and dreams shot down by teenage rage and corporate dialogues spilling into general chat.

Anni, while you have a valid point and a valid quest this is certainly not the time for a straw to break the camels back. While alpha production seems to always be made harder where are the "Alpha research is so easy, thank you devs!" post for added high level alpha island spawns? Huh?...


There is an insane amount of logistical hassle to production on Beta.  Most corps mine Alpha side minerals and transport them in to Beta but that requires a corp "Hauling" session every week that can be multiple hours long or even nightly.  Not to mention trying to hold an internal market in two different locations to bring minerals in.  It is rather bothersome trying to upkeep multiple buy orders in terminals, have a life, pvp, manage recruitting, post nonsense on the forums, stalk perp-kill, bash toggies, hold a stable job and most importantly try to find food >.>;

I would be thrilled to see Titan return to Beta and the Ore fields be NORMALLIZED SERVER WIDE.  Yes Balancing Islands..  Who would have thought?  You want to give me more snad to play with?

Give me Beacons that are permanently deployable in an area 1000 M from the station and teleporters that give me a 4X4 growing tile that requires interaction every day to replenish on a 24 hr cycle.
I buy a Titan Beacon deploy it.  A 4X4 or 5X5 square of "yellow" tiles appear.  I mine those I have to wait 24 hours before I can activate the beacon again and then another yellow set of tiles appear.  If I choose to leave the tiles allow and reactivate tomorrow I then get Red Tiles.  These Beacons can only be found by killing a T3 escalating star beacon industrial and a VERY High Seed price at Beta Terminals only.

Because contrary to popular belief devs, we WANT to live on Beta full time smile

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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

The MINOR recycling change really touched a nerve with you Anni.

I have one request--- Please don't pull a Purgy forum assualt about a MINOR change like he did with his "useless" shield bonus on the Gropho......

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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

it touched me since it looks like he strategy to around alpha vs. beta balancing is still focused on the
"Risk vs. Reward" argumentation, while its always the "Reward" side that gets a boost.

in my other topic, i already pointed out that its not really the nerf of recycling thats anoying as such, since i know why it happened, and why it was necessary.
BUT one of the two factors that have been leading to that nerf is what im complaining about here:

The nerf of the extensionbonus has a secondary effect which cant be seen on first sight by those who answer with "its been same % for all, beta or alpha - so STFU"

Extension % and Recycling station % and standing % are summed up for final %
Pre nerf :
30% + 22.5% + (<6%)  = the extension % was most important factor
after nerf:
20% + 22.5% + (<6%)  = the level of the recycling plant now is on par with the extension = boost for beta


What im asking is - did boosting the "reward" side on pvp islands, since closed beta, ever lower the psychological barrier for player to live go there?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

Reasons I would live on Beta over Alpha:
a. Double cycles on plants
b. Higher level facilities
c. Better spawns
d. Less contested resources

If they added Titan ore to beta, I would move there right now wink

So I would say there potentially could be reward increases on beta that would convince me to move there.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

Maybe off topic, and a question for outpost owners;

Don't you have to buy-up facility levels?

If so, can outpost owners get lvl 4 for all Refining, Factory, AND recycling at 100%?

If not, then only the corps that are holding multiple outposts, or working with allilances will sacrifice refining or factory 4 for recycling 4. Even then, probalby only corps and not alliances, because then that corp would be having to haul to refine or build.

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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

3 lvl 4's and one lvl 2 facility is the maximum.

Because the voices told me to do it.
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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

So, yes, getting all (3) now is doable.

Thanks!

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Re: Did a beta-boost/alpha nerf ever...

Annihilator wrote:

it touched me since it looks like he strategy to around alpha vs. beta balancing is still focused on the
"Risk vs. Reward" argumentation, while its always the "Reward" side that gets a boost.

in my other topic, i already pointed out that its not really the nerf of recycling thats anoying as such, since i know why it happened, and why it was necessary.
BUT one of the two factors that have been leading to that nerf is what im complaining about here:

The nerf of the extensionbonus has a secondary effect which cant be seen on first sight by those who answer with "its been same % for all, beta or alpha - so STFU"

Extension % and Recycling station % and standing % are summed up for final %
Pre nerf :
30% + 22.5% + (<6%)  = the extension % was most important factor
after nerf:
20% + 22.5% + (<6%)  = the level of the recycling plant now is on par with the extension = boost for beta


What im asking is - did boosting the "reward" side on pvp islands, since closed beta, ever lower the psychological barrier for player to live go there?

You will never get a good answer to your question Anni. What you will get is the "carebear group" aka TOG (no offense to toggies) that have alot of members or should I say beta accounts that will never make a sustained venture to beta for ANY reason. Their play style doesn't allow for true RISK. They and many players like them are here for the carebear portion of the game. They don't want to RISK anything yet want to reap alot of the reward for what they do. This group will never be satisfied unless they have all the same benefits of beta dwellers without the RISK.

The carebear style of play is a valid style however you will find there is always a massive seperation between them and the Beta/PVP dwellers, regardless of what sandbox mmo game is being played. Carebears by nature don't enjoy risking their items. They don't enjoy conflict (unless its market pvp). They don't get that little rush of adrenalin right as a fight starts. Anything that even slightly gives an advantage to the PVP/Beta dweller side is viewed as a crime by most of the "carebear" group. Anything that takes away from the "easy life" of alpha is a sin. There is no middle ground for the majority of "carebears". It is all reward and no RISK.

The beta/PVP group can have the exact opposite extremes however these extremists are a small minority of this group. Most beta players are willing to except compromise to improve all aspects of the game as they realize that there has to be some "carebears" somewhere to make them items or supply them with some occassional tears. Most of us beta/PVP players understand there must be sacrifices to drive our style of play and we accept them (most of the time!!!). I have yet to see anyone screaming about the change to intrusion visibilty for example. Why? It is a change (in my opinion) that will deliver more surprise pvp and less "Oh crap! I just jumped on Alsbale and Brightstone has an active intrusion. Get the boys ready!!!!". This change encourages active scouting by hostile forces to identify active intrusions. It simply means-- More people on beta... Good for pvp!

Long story short Anni-- Don't hold your breath for an answer. There aren't many people that don't belong to one group or the other......

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