1 Topic by Jack Jombardo (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-11-14 12:55:20)

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Topic: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

PS: don't miss understand this topic! I love the random spawns smile.
They just could be improved a little bit wink.


When you farm random spots at the moment, you end up with many different typ of kernals and some combinations are more funny then logic.

For excample the 2 group spawn in the middle of Tellessis where one group spawns a 4th Darkstar Kain and the other a 4th Darkstar Messmer.
Lowest posible spawn there is 3* 1st star Camelions.
Strongest spawn there is 3* 3d star Kains.
Somewhere in the middle anythink from 1st star small to 4th star mech can spawn.

So after 2 hours of farming this spot the typical kernal collection includes anythink
1 to 5 star small
3 to 4 star assault
1 to 4 star mech
1 to 4 star heavy mech
But no typ in any real amount (10+ from one type of kernal).
This makes a targeted Kernal farm more frustrating then fun (if you aim for 3th Assault for example you end with 6 Kernals you want and XXX you don't want at this moment).

In addition, it's very hard to calculate the difficulty of spawns.
While this example spawn has a 4th Darkstar Messmer ... he isn't by far the most dangures spawn there. With some (bad) luck you might get 3* 3t star Kains from the one group and another 2* 3t star Kains from the other where some of them use ECM, Dampener, Demob.
As oposit you might get 6* 1/2t star Camellions which are a joke at the point where you can handle this spot.

This leads to the problem, that it is hard for example to tell new Pilots, where the might find a nice spot, which fits their Extension levels.

Now to the my sugestions.
First of the range of levels shouldn't be that high. If the biggest spawn is a 4th Darkstar Messmer, the smallest shouldn't be 1st star Camelions. The bottom end should more be 3t star Assaults but more then just 3 (maybe up to 6 peer group??).
In addition, maybe the Elite spawn should be the hardest spawn posible. As a solo Darkstar isn't realy a killer, maybe combine this spawn with "suport". This could be like 4th Darkstar Messmer + 2* 3th star Messmers.

Over all, it would need a pre-deffination of something like "dificulty levels".

..
to be continued

2 Reply by Jack Jombardo (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-11-14 11:59:40)

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

A try of random spawn building:
Elite (Darkstars):
- either max level +1 solo (if the highest normal is a 3. star assault the elite would be 4. darkstar assault)
- or max level + suport (if the highest is 3. star assault elite will be 3. darkstar assault + 2* 3. light for example)

Groups:
Atm there are spawns with 2 and 3 groups of spawns where one is a bit easier and one is a bit harder. This could be expandet smile. Maybe 4 or even 5 groups?

Level range:
If the Elite is a 4. darkstar Messmer, the lowest shouldn't be 1. star Camelions. The range is just to big. Maybe a max difference of 3 levels?

Robot size:
While I understand, that you like to show, that Camelions are still usefull later ... it makes no real sense, to spawn 3* Camelions at the same spot with high level Messmers. It's 5 size-levels (camelion, yagal, arbalest, kain, vagabond, messmer) where you would need ALOT more then just 3 camelions to gain the same dangure as this 1 messmer provides.
My sugestion: stay within 3 size-levels
- ew +  normal bot + assault
- normal bot + assault + ew mech
- assault + ew mech + mech
- ew mech + mech + h mech

..

short break to creat a table wink

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

it might need a bit more fine tuning, but i agree totaly with you about random spawns.

spawn: geografical spawning point of mobs
wave: singe npc group that pops up at spawning point.

there has to be a rateing system how hard the spawn point shoud be. and the waves dificulties should not be too far from that one. and even more. it should be a gauss curve. so most of the time you get a wave that is at the same lvl as the spawn. and higher or lower dificulty waves schould be more rare then they are appart from the dificulty of the spawn.
the definition of these waves should contain a lot more work than it is atm.

that way you will have a way better npc spawn system.


in addition i think a few more extreme hard spawns (more bots) would also be nice. a spawn where a solo player even in a good skilled heavy mech may have not a chance. so teamplay will not only be recomended, but aslo be required. this of cource should not be the common spawn. 2-3 of these spots per island would be totaly fine. and so far as i can see there is still plenty of room for that on the islands atm...

4 Reply by Jack Jombardo (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-11-14 12:53:22)

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

Level					
Type	Points	1	2	3	4	5	
ew bot	1	0,02	0,04	0,05	0,07	0,09	
bot	3	0,05	0,11	0,16	0,22	0,27	
assault	5	0,09	0,18	0,27	0,36	0,45	
ew mech	7	0,13	0,25	0,38	0,51	0,64	
mech	9	0,16	0,33	0,49	0,65	0,82	
h mech	11	0,2	0,4	0,6	0,8	1	
							Max points = 1 * 5th star Heavy Mech
							55

What does this mean?
If the highest spawn is 1* 5. star Heavy Mech you would need 1/((type*level)/max points) other bots to make them equal difficult.

Type	Points	1	2	3	4	5
ew bot	1	55	27,5	18,33	13,75	11
bot	3	18,33	9,17	6,11	4,58	3,67
assault	5	11	5,5	3,67	2,75	2,2
ew mech	7	7,86	3,93	2,62	1,96	1,57
mech	9	6,11	3,06	2,04	1,53	1,22
h mech	11	5	2,5	1,67	1,25	1

So for example you would need 11* 5. star Camelions, to make them as much threed as 1* 5. star Messmer is. Or 55*1. star Camelions wink.

The points are free chosen and can be altered with good arguments.

It's just a try to open your eyes, that the range of some spawns is just to big atm and should be adjusted.
If you want max 3 bots peer spawn and the biggest spawn is a 5. star Messmer, the smallest which should spawn are:
- 3* 2. star heavy mech
- 3* 2. star mech
- 3* 3. star ew mech
- 3* 3. star assault
- 3* 5. star bot
- no ew bots

I personal would even argue for
- 3*2. star heavy mech
- 3*3. star mech
- 3*4. star ew mech
- 3*5. star assault
- no bot
- no ew bot

If the biggest spawn should be 3* 4. star Kains that would be a max points of 108 [=3*(7*4)].
To get somethink equal difficult, you need 3*3. star Messmers or 3*5. star Vagabonds.

		Level					
Type	Points	1	2	3	4	5	
ew bot	1	0,01	0,02	0,03	0,04	0,05	
bot	3	0,03	0,06	0,08	0,11	0,14	
assault	5	0,05	0,09	0,14	0,19	0,23	
ew mech	7	0,06	0,13	0,19	0,26	0,32	
mech	9	0,08	0,17	0,25	0,33	0,42	
h mech	11	0,1	0,2	0,31	0,41	0,51	
							Max points = 1 * 5th star Heavy Mech
Type	Points	1	2	3	4	5	108
ew bot	1	108	54	36	27	21,6	
bot	3	36	18	12	9	7,2	
assault	5	21,6	10,8	7,2	5,4	4,32	
ew mech	7	15,43	7,71	5,14	3,86	3,09
mech	9	12	6	4	3	2,4	
h mech	11	9,82	4,91	3,27	2,45	1,96

To get some easier spawn in, we use the "go left, go top" method.
Hardest: 3* 4. Kains
Equivalent: 3* 3. Messmer or 3* 5. Vagabond
easier spawns
- 3* 3. Kains
- 3* 2. Messmer
- 3* 4. Vagabonds
- 3* 5. Arbalast
- no Yagals or Camelions

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

One last point smile
If the absolut hardest spawn is 3 * 5. star Messmer ... you should use far more Kains, Vagabonds and Arbalests wink.
Don't know about the spawn on Beta, but on Alpha the max is 3 peer spawn. But 3*5.star Messmer would need an equivalent of 5+ 5.star Kains or a real swarm of Arbalests to be equal dangures.

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

So why this changes?

Most of us chose hunting spots becouse of:
- can be done without exploding (to often *g*)
- loot you search (kernals of spezific level/type most times)
- NIC/h

Spawns as they are now a tricky. You might have luck to get many times in a row the "good" spawns which drob the best NIC or the Kernals you want. But they can too but a big frustration where you end with hours of much smaller stuff then you could do and nearly no kernals of the type you want.

AND .. the Elite spawns aren't the hardest spawns ... which isn't realy bad as it garantees you some fanzy loot. But I know several spawn, where the Elite spawns are jokes and other spawns can kick your *** (5* 3.star Kains all with ECM&dampener do hurt!)

Random might be TO random atm wink.

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

My idea to improve random spawns:
Randomize their location according to player activity.

One man army
http://www.perp-kill.net/related/239910
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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

Alexadar wrote:

My idea to improve random spawns:
Randomize their location according to player activity.

?
And how should this work or improve them?

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

How should this work or improve them?
It should remove dumbness stupidity, when you farming npc's allways on the same locations.
NPC's should spawn, build, shoot, organise themselves in their own way.
Because
This is sandbox.
This is not themepark grind-game.

One man army
http://www.perp-kill.net/related/239910

10 Reply by Hug (edited by Hug 2011-11-14 13:45:01)

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

Alexadar wrote:

My idea to improve random spawns:
Randomize their location according to player activity.

yep running around an hour just to find a spawn you are looking for would be so much fun.

brilliant idea big_smile

/ironie off

varity should come from that there are more desireable spawns you would want to visit but for running around there is artefact scanning tongue

@ jack i was thinking all the same the last days when there was just low lvl stuff spawning forever at a normally decent spot.

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

Alexadar wrote:

How should this work or improve them?
It should remove dumbness stupidity, when you farming npc's allways on the same locations.
NPC's should spawn, build, shoot, organise themselves in their own way.
Because
This is sandbox.
This is not themepark grind-game.

Um, there are travel spawns and since last patch there had been random travling Observer spawns.
Last one where removed as they couse to much trubble with miners and low EP agents.

So random locations wouldn't be much different from the removed Observers wink.

And as you are from Chaos ... as a PvP oriented Corp I don't belive your buddys would be happy, if there is absolut no fix route over Betas anymore as everywhere and any time a big fast 5. star/observer spawn could pop up ^^.

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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

I agree that random are too random actually; i even would prefer fixed spawns.

A less difference between levels would be fine.
What about few specific spawns, like mech/ewmech/hmech and bot/ewbot/assault spawns ?
Would be nice to have 1-2 spawns designed for a group, more packs spawned for more intense fighting.

Anyway, most important actually is the wide range between levels who is, imho, very boring and frustrating, well i know some people still farming a lot and it look like they are very happy, good for them.

D: How come you don't roll on Saturday, Walter?
W: Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't drive a car, I don't f***ing ride in a car, I don't handle money, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as sh*t DON'T F***ING ROLL !!
D: Sheesh.
W: Shomer shabbos! ... Shomer f***ing shabbos!
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Re: Some idears how to improve random Spawns

Jack Jombardo wrote:
Alexadar wrote:

How should this work or improve them?
It should remove dumbness stupidity, when you farming npc's allways on the same locations.
NPC's should spawn, build, shoot, organise themselves in their own way.
Because
This is sandbox.
This is not themepark grind-game.

Um, there are travel spawns and since last patch there had been random travling Observer spawns.
Last one where removed as they couse to much trubble with miners and low EP agents.

So random locations wouldn't be much different from the removed Observers wink.

And as you are from Chaos ... as a PvP oriented Corp I don't belive your buddys would be happy, if there is absolut no fix route over Betas anymore as everywhere and any time a big fast 5. star/observer spawn could pop up ^^.

Don't worry, my boys will be happy.

Back on topic: i want more reasonable NPC behavior and more "sand" in the "box".

One man army
http://www.perp-kill.net/related/239910