• ASI-MA
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Topic: Weapon dps graphs

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/dpsi.gif/

Hello

Since I couldn't get a good answer about weapon dps, I went and did my own research. I have to post here since I'm still on trial. Feel free to review the formulas used:

For weapon damage modifier:
BASE_DMG_MODIFIER*(1+(0.05*SKILL_BOT_CONTROL)+(0.03*SKILL_WEAPON))*((0.01*SKILL_TARGET_ANALYSIS)+(1+TUNING_DMG_BONUS)^NUM_WEAPON_TUNINGS)

For cycle time:
BASE_CYCLE_TIME*1/(1+0.01*SKILL_RACIAL_BOT+0.03*SKILL_LARGE_ROF_BONUS+0.01*SKILL_SMALL_ROF_BONUS+TUNING_CYCLE_TIME_BONUS*NUM_WEAPON_TUNINGS)

I haven't properly tested the effect of tunings on cycle time, so perhaps the hungarian math will prove me wrong. Anyway this would affect each weapon system equally. I used T1 equipment and ammo, with level 10 extensions, a 3% dmg 2% crit spark, two weapon extensions for light weapons and three for med weapons.

What's missing from the graph is optimals:
Light HCL Laser: 195
Med HCL Laser: 455
Med LCL Laser: 227.5
Light Missile: 195
Med Missile: 390   
Med. Compact Missile: 195
Light EM Gun: 156
Med EM Gun: 377
Med Gauss Gun: 195

All considered, the following questions come up:
1) Is missile dps too low at the mech level?
2) Light EM guns seem too weak. They do the same dps as lasers while having less optimal.
3) Is medium LCL Laser accumulator consumption too high? It should be somewhere between HCL Laser and Gauss Gun but is actually higher than the HCL Laser.
4) The Gauss Gun seems to do more dps than its optimal would warrant. It does 58% more dps than a compact missile and has 12% better dps*optimal than the LCL Laser, its next closest counterpart.

  • JOKE
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Re: Weapon dps graphs

Can't really confirm your formulas but in any case great work; and yes missile DPS is the lowest basically to balance out its lack of LOS issues and no accumulator though I must admit didn't expect it to be that low.

Light EM guns used less accumulator so I would think there would be a disadvantage compared to Lasers.

The rest I don't know, but I'm sure combat experts would give you more feedback on this.

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: Weapon dps graphs

A very nice graph but the same need to be made to include ranges. a Graph at for under 200m, under 300m under 400m etc.. Because weapon range makes a HUGE different and those lasers an still deal that DPS further than a mesmer can even if it can close the distance faster.


It's all swings and round abouts. Pure DPS means nothing if you can't apply it. Missile DPS is lower but better because the chance of missing is much lower

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Re: Weapon dps graphs

It's all swings and round abouts. Pure DPS means nothing if you can't apply it. Missile DPS is lower but better because the chance of missing is much lower

Medium ballistic missiles do 7% more base dps than light ballistic missiles. (I'm arguing that medium missiles dps is too low)
Medium HCL lasers do 33% more base dps than light HCL lasers.
Medium EM guns do 48% more base dps than light EM guns (I'm arguing that this is due to light EM guns having too low dps)

5 Reply by MegaMaid (edited by MegaMaid 2011-11-09 19:10:14)

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Re: Weapon dps graphs

Dexy wrote:

It's all swings and round abouts. Pure DPS means nothing if you can't apply it. Missile DPS is lower but better because the chance of missing is much lower

Medium ballistic missiles do 7% more base dps than light ballistic missiles. (I'm arguing that medium missiles dps is too low)

Yes, thats what compact medium missiles are for.

There is no light equivalent to medium compact missiles.

Ballistic misses main advantage is range, not DPS. Their range compounds with the LOS advantage significantly. If they were buffed, they would no longer be balanced. Green bots / missiles are best suited to long range artillery style fits, but can also be fit for close range DPS using compact missiles.

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Re: Weapon dps graphs

But he compared all long range weapons together so the long range missiles should be doing around 10% more damage than they do now and that would be more balanced. Compacts are fine but could do with a 5% or 10% boost.

  • AIC
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Re: Weapon dps graphs

Alexander wrote:

But he compared all long range weapons together so the long range missiles should be doing around 10% more damage than they do now and that would be more balanced. Compacts are fine but could do with a 5% or 10% boost.

Should all weapons get an equal return in all areas going from small to medium? Other colors do get the increased range, but it is harder for them to use it. Thats probably why a Tyranos does similar damage to a waspish when using ballistic missles.

As a pelistal pilot I am pretty happy with compact missile DPS (similar to the DPS you get from EM guns / HCLs in similar fits / skills)

  • ASI-MA
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Re: Weapon dps graphs

Right, to understand optimal and dps better, we should just do DPS*optimal and see how the weapons score:

Light HCL Laser 4807
Light Missile 3995
Light EM Gun 3883
           
Med. HCL Laser 16355
Med. EM Gun 15201
Med. Missile 9360

Med. Gauss Gun 11139
Med. LCL Laser 9813   
Med. Compact Missile 7020

I hope this illustrates the problems better.

9 Reply by MegaMaid (edited by MegaMaid 2011-11-09 19:43:39)

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Re: Weapon dps graphs

Dexy wrote:

Right, to understand optimal and dps better, we should just do DPS*optimal and see how the weapons score:

Light HCL Laser 4807
Light Missile 3995
Light EM Gun 3883
           
Med. HCL Laser 16355
Med. EM Gun 15201
Med. Missile 9360

Med. Gauss Gun 11139
Med. LCL Laser 9813   
Med. Compact Missile 7020

I hope this illustrates the problems better.

But this does not factor in LOS / terrain smile

Blue/yellow can be measured this way, but not green. Green is probably the most difficult color to balance correctly.

10 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2011-11-10 02:14:48)

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Re: Weapon dps graphs

I think it might be better to look past the numbers:

-Assults-
Arbalest
a. Highest Speed
b. Highest DPS (only by a bit)
c. Lowest Range
Baphomet
a. High Speed
b. High DPS
c. Medium Range
Waspish
a. Lowest Speed
b. Medium DPS
c. Longest Range
d. No LOS/Accumulator Issues

Mechs:
Kain
a. Highest Speed
b. Highest DPS
c. Lowest Potential for Range
Artemis
a. Medium Speed
b. High DPS
c. Medium-High Range Potential
d. Passive Tank
Tyranos
a. Lowest Speed
b. Lowest DPS (About the same as a waspish using ballistic missles)
c. Medium-High Range Potential
d. No LOS/Accumulator Issues

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
  • BKK
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Re: Weapon dps graphs

as far as i can see, this alos completely ignores chance2hit/damage mitigation and crit chance.

if you factor in all aspects, you will get this result:

laser mounted on laser combat bot = highest DPS in open terrain medium to long range
magnetic guns mounted on blue blue combat bot = highest burst damage possible, highest DPS in close range
missiles mounted on missile combat bot = highest DPS in heavy terrain at all ranges.

your DPS is worth nothing if every second shot misses  (Gauss vs. smaller targets)
your DPS is worth nothing if it hits a bump on the ground (Laser at longere ranges)
your DPS is not worth much if you deal 1000 dmg per volley, if your target has only 200 HP and you have to wait several seconds to fire on the next target (overshoot)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear