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Topic: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

I have a couple of easy farming spots. Being mainly Pelistal, I pick spots where LOS always plays in my favor. However when I went to a spawn post patch, I was surprised I needed to rep very often.

Watching what is going on, I noticed that the NPCs are shooting at me through hills (and not ONE but several).  There was even a cluster of rocks (impassable terrain) in the path yet I registered damage on my armor.

Anybody else encountered this or is it only for this particular spawn. I do have a screenshot if anybody is interested.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Post the screen shot. Keep in mind if you're lacking and are ducking in and out of cover this will effect their LOS.

However if you're using buildings for cover it's very likely their height block has been set too low.

3 Reply by Hugh Ruka (edited by Hugh Ruka 2011-08-31 08:25:45)

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Alexander wrote:

Post the screen shot. Keep in mind if you're lacking and are ducking in and out of cover this will effect their LOS.

However if you're using buildings for cover it's very likely their height block has been set too low.

I am constantly sitting behind a small ledge. I can shoot over it and they can't (or should not), I have a few similar spawn points. I have to test it on the others yet to see if it is global or location bound.

edit: have to find a site to host the screenshot. did not find an add image feature on the forum.

  • CIR
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

imageshack.us

<GargajCNS> we maim to please
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

UPDATE: I noticed that my missiles also go through obstacles they would either hit or fly over in the past. They pass through terrain like they never did before.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

http://imgur.com/ > all other image sites.

7 Reply by Hugh Ruka (edited by Hugh Ruka 2011-09-06 06:53:06)

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

http://imgur.com/0cgSf - here I am behind a small ledge. was completely safe there before 25th patch.

http://imgur.com/V3mzn - here I am on the side of a hill, again the spot was completely safe before 25th patch.

of course when the NPCs walked right next to me they did shoot me, but not until they were right on top of me. now the hit me anywhere they are.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

It's because the LOS calculation was changed. Weapons shoot slightly higher. That's only a small bump and if it's spread over 4 tiles it's quite easy that the two tiles renders as being a bump on your screen are accentually the same height as the tile you're standing on. What happens if you force yourself right down into the dip in the corner?

  • Hawt
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

But wouldn't it apply to player owned shots (POS^^) too if it was an intended feature based on changed LOS calculation?
@Hugh Raka
If possible go back to this location on the 2nd screenshot and shoot back with a turret to see if it works in both directions.

  • MORTE
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Could be that 'robot height' is a fixed vertical height and does not depend on the slope that your bot is actually standing on. Hence the LOS calculation is different to what is shown on your screen

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

LOS and missile path IS different from the graphical version. It would be nice if the same calculation and graphics were used for both instances. There are always lag issues involved too. I sometimes see an NPC up to 20m different on two clients running on the same network.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Alexander wrote:

It's because the LOS calculation was changed. Weapons shoot slightly higher. That's only a small bump and if it's spread over 4 tiles it's quite easy that the two tiles renders as being a bump on your screen are accentually the same height as the tile you're standing on. What happens if you force yourself right down into the dip in the corner?

I get shot anywhere on those pictures ... I tried the most extremes I can get to the edge if impas terrain.

Also I verified via combat log that I am being shot. Net result is that I have to repair much more than before patch.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Yah, it sucks for you but works great everywhere else.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Alexander wrote:

Yah, it sucks for you but works great everywhere else.

well the end result is that missile LOS advantage got reduced ... that sucks for all missile users ...

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Hugh Ruka wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Yah, it sucks for you but works great everywhere else.

well the end result is that missile LOS advantage got reduced ... that sucks for all missile users ...

It does mean however that when you're standing on a hill and trying shoot down it you don't shoot the floor. It means you need real hills to cover from turret damage. Small bumps won't save you like they used to. Just find a new place. I am sure there is one.

Also NPC will not stand still and shoot hills any more. They move into a LOS position. The NPC may not be at the position that you see it in on screen through lag/desync but I find that less likely. I think NPCs can now see terrain better than we can.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Alexander wrote:
Hugh Ruka wrote:
Alexander wrote:

Yah, it sucks for you but works great everywhere else.

well the end result is that missile LOS advantage got reduced ... that sucks for all missile users ...

It does mean however that when you're standing on a hill and trying shoot down it you don't shoot the floor. It means you need real hills to cover from turret damage. Small bumps won't save you like they used to. Just find a new place. I am sure there is one.

Also NPC will not stand still and shoot hills any more. They move into a LOS position. The NPC may not be at the position that you see it in on screen through lag/desync but I find that less likely. I think NPCs can now see terrain better than we can.

actualy no ... the NPC movement in both spots is the same. in the first one they are well inside their optimal (less than 140m of walking distance) so they run erraticaly around trying to reach their optimal range.

the point is:

I am behind a ledge that is HIGHER (ok minimaly but still higher) than my bot. the NPC is LOWER than my bot. I GET HIT ALL THE TIME !!!

Sure I do find new spots, that's the fun of the game. To explore the possiblities.

Since no DEV cared to coment, I'd close this thread as useless.

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

i would call it a bug if you could not shoot back with turrets from the same location.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Annihilator wrote:

i would call it a bug if you could not shoot back with turrets from the same location.

Good point.

19 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2011-09-07 21:24:47)

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

So I guess the question is, how can the game display a more accurate representation of LOS?

If I can't trust my own eyes, what am I supposed to trust? I should not have to wait for turret users to hit me through the ground to know they have LOS....

While we are on the topic, I find many of the structures in the game to be quite buggy for LOS for both turret and missle users. The enemy is in clear LOS, yet it hits the object extending from the building. Same for the guy behind it.

Stuff like this makes using cover since the patch very frustrating to say the least (for both turret users and missle users)

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Structures ARE very buggy because whoever installed them made a royal mess up with the terrain blocking tiles under them. I've reported and seen repaired many issues but they're so far that it would have been better to have someone who checks their work does it right the first time..

Measure twice, Cut once..

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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Alexander wrote:

Structures ARE very buggy because whoever installed them made a royal mess up with the terrain blocking tiles under them. I've reported and seen repaired many issues but they're so far that it would have been better to have someone who checks their work does it right the first time..

Measure twice, Cut once..

/me walks through a wall at hershfield.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: NPC shooting through hills - LOS issue ?

Annihilator wrote:

i would call it a bug if you could not shoot back with turrets from the same location.

I will put an ac on my waspish and try.