Topic: Looking to the possible future

At the moment perpetuum-online have island-based map. This map have beta islands, what have FFA pvp and most precious resource epriton, what can be mined there. Current endgame content focused over epriton, what can be used to build most powerfull machines in a game, so game mechanics should be used to take control over resource spots. You can deny mining of epriton, settle up on alpha and build t1 and robots from alpha resources, then this topic not for you.
I want to talk a bit about with players, who taking part in the endgame competition, about problems what this game have.

The core problem what i seeing is in scouting. If you want to spend hours to mine epriton, you should put proper defences and scouting network. Imagine you are the new corporation, you have 20+ active members and you want to mine epriton. You selecting the island, scanning the minerals, taking some miners and scouts. What would you do to secure miners? If you want to put some warfare bots around mining squad, its good. If you can cover all teleports at the island, and control in\out for N hours, its best way. If you will see the enemy on tp, you will logoff miners and then...whatever you want to do: kill them or just watch or else. Miners in safe, resources in safe.

Cover tp's with eyes.... We using this action for months...

You can secure huge piece of landmass with trial arches. Its easy to pay nothing for extra-window, and have huge profit.
Easiest way to secure island created consequence, what was spoken for months: Alliances. With alliance you can distribute your scouting duties between corporations and live in peace in island. But at the moment none alliance using all beta-island features fully effective. The question is: whats wrong with game mechanics, what allows you to secure giant landmasses with few of free accounts? The answer is simple: encapsulation of islands. Human nature interpreting ingame island like a room with 4 doors. If you want safety in your room just put few guards on doors. No matter how effective you will use resources and features of beta island. Its easiest way now.
Okay, you put some eyes on TP's, and setteled up on some beta terminal. You think you are safe: no, you will be pushed from your homebase by endgame corps, what can roam and scan all islands in 2 hours. Each small presence somewhere, and you will be disclosed in few days and roamed to hell. And you will be roamed by the one of the alliance corp, because current game mechanics forced to create blob for island defence. Because its easy to scout, secure and defend island together. As a consequence we have small world, and powerblocks what prevent game from fun. (dont complain "game is doomed because novablob". Even if novablob will go to the alpha, some powerblock will took its place. And so on while this game still have players)

TLDR. I see the next problems in this game:
1. Free "Trial" arches on teleports, what allows corps easily control traffic
2. Game mechanics forced corporations to make powerblocks and to use p.1 for gaining control over islands easily.
3. New corps have no chance at beta because old corps can easily detect and roam all beta islands in 2 hours.

Solution:
This game needs global changes to have a place for a new corporations and old powerblocks. I propose to review island system and make new islands, what will shift game state to the better days. This new islands will be rather like continents, what will have immerse size to be roamed easily, and have ability to be a home for each corporation. This new continents will have safe and pvp zones. Safe zones will have a teleports, what will lead to the other continents\islands. This teleports wil be surrounded with "alpha" services: terminals, resource spots, lets say alpha-oasis. Imagine smaller corp wants to mine some epriton. This corp will take some scouts, what will walk through the island, leave safe alpha territory, and corp will find some resource spots. The important thing to make some spots with dynamic location, to prevent roaming over "tasty" places. Younger corp will find a suitable spot, take some industrials from alpha-zone, check that there is no tail behind them and walk to the new place. At the spot industrials will build cheap POSes and settle up sort of a cheap base. The key principle of this idea is to make low tier POS cheap enough, to be rebuilt with some efforts. Then even if your base was destroyed, you can regroup on alpha-zone, and make your base somewhere else: you have a lot of choices because continent is huge and noone can know where you mining\farming on a pvp zone. Risk vs reward: you risking not much, and revard is not much.
Corporation developed itself and ready to mass production, and large scaled mining. Corporation will have to build expencive base, put some defenses, make some alliances and be ready to defend their base, because it is too valuable to loose. Risk vs reward: you can lost almost everything but you can make alot of profit.
According to this idea, all corporation will have place in the game: smaller corps will build small bases somewhere, large corps will build cities somewhere. Large corps will be not able to find small corps alot, because small corps will ever build the bases somewhere in a deeps of continent. All corps will be able to find large corps, because their cities so huge, that you can find them easily, but they are not easy to be conquered or destroyed. There will be no trial arche-eyes because pure detector accounts will make scouting better. There will be no ineffective usage of beta-island because everyone will be focused over their resource\farm spots, and will have to scout with detectors to secure front. You will be ever not bored because you will allways be able to spend hours to search for the noob-POSes, or to make awesome gang to conquer some top city, of top corporation. You will be able to go everywhere you want, because there will be no arches who control access to the giant piece of landmass.

TLDR:

1. Implement huge continents, what will be not easy to roam in a day
2. New continents will have some outer teleports, all surrounded with safe cities
3. Away from safe cities there will be FFA pvp territory, where corps will be able to build POSes
4. Low level POSes will be easily to build. High level poses will be hard to build
5. POS cities will be discovered by the enemy according to their size, so small corps will be easy to rebuild small city, and large corps will have to spend alot of efforts to defend large city.

This system will solve alot of problems, will create a place for all types of gameplay and all types of corps.

2 (edited by Triglav 2011-08-25 22:32:28)

Re: Looking to the possible future

While i quite like what you're suggesting, I'm confused on one point: you would not allow any intra-continent teleports in this system?

If so - awesome, ppl should slowbot more in this game. If not - then nothing really changes from the current system.

And yes larger land masses (or tbh current land masses with MANY MORE teleport accesss points (but then this would also kill the meaning of separate defensible islands)) would solve a lot in ways of player interaction.

i'm just unsure as to how the current game engine can support it? iirc each island is a NxN height map with fixed N? If i'm wrong, then there's no problem smile

Re: Looking to the possible future

Triglav wrote:

While i quite like what you're suggesting, I'm confused on one point: you would not allow any intra-continent teleports in this system?

If so - awesome, ppl should slowbot more in this game. If not - then nothing really changes from the current system.

And yes larger land masses (or tbh current land masses with MANY MORE teleport accesss points (but then this would also kill the meaning of separate defensible islands)) would solve a lot in ways of player interaction.

i'm just unsure as to how the current game engine can support it? iirc each island is a NxN height map with fixed N? If i'm wrong, then there's no problem smile

I'd have to agree with beta islands needing more land mass and maybe 3-4 more access points from other islands. Along with more teleports for internal travel inside the islands with each on having 3-4 different destinations giving small roams more options to move around and pick targets.

Re: Looking to the possible future

Huge continents (or even just 1 but extremelly huge ) with city-like stations sounds interesting. However, for such system we also may need new intrusion and outpost ownership system, a way to integrate POS-system (kinda self-build cities), a way to prevent old-beta secure zones camping (why to roam around if you can just sit and camp everyone who is trying to leave city borders), etc. Most of these things are need really HUGE island, you know, 1-2 hours of fastest bot running. Mobs may need theyr own npc cities aswell, to not turn em into homeless vagabonds.

Outpost capture will be more like city siege, with a walls and work for artillery, and a lots of other things.

And ofc all these things can make this game more LA2-like big_smile

tl;dr: This proposal will need full re-design of almost everything we have. It will be more like Perpetuum 2 than a just some patches. Work on it (if any) will take imho an year or two, mostly because DEVs can't just leave us as we are smile

Have a productive day, runner!
R.I.P. Chenoa, you'll never be forgotten.
DEV Zoom: Line, sorry, I was away for christmas.
http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=252086

Re: Looking to the possible future

not to go on a tangent but why are there so many alexander name variations on perpetuum

Re: Looking to the possible future

It's like Legolas on fantasy mmos

Re: Looking to the possible future

Triglav wrote:

While i quite like what you're suggesting, I'm confused on one point: you would not allow any intra-continent teleports in this system?

If so - awesome, ppl should slowbot more in this game. If not - then nothing really changes from the current system.

And yes larger land masses (or tbh current land masses with MANY MORE teleport accesss points (but then this would also kill the meaning of separate defensible islands)) would solve a lot in ways of player interaction.

i'm just unsure as to how the current game engine can support it? iirc each island is a NxN height map with fixed N? If i'm wrong, then there's no problem smile

I dont know how it should be with teleports. The first idea what coming to my mind is to allow POS-teleports, what can have some variations: low tiered(public), mid-tiered(private, can be hacked), high-tiered(private). It can be a set of internal teleports on the coast, what will force people to move in the deeps of continent from varius locations, or something else.

I'm sure current game engine not support this idea, but, like any software, game engine can be upgraded\rewrited.

Re: Looking to the possible future

Line wrote:

...
tl;dr: This proposal will need full re-design of almost everything we have. It will be more like Perpetuum 2 than a just some patches. Work on it (if any) will take imho an year or two, mostly because DEVs can't just leave us as we are smile

Well, even if it will come in 2 years, it should be great, because i doubt that anywhere will be similar game somewhere in 3-4 years.

Re: Looking to the possible future

you didn't answer my question though

Re: Looking to the possible future

Goblin wrote:

you didn't answer my question though

I have no idea why it happened here. I came in this game with my nickname from wow.

Re: Looking to the possible future

ah

Anyways, I like your ideas but making the world even bigger at this point would imo be a mistake with such a low population + high turnover rate.

I don't feel it's necessary now but that's just my opinion

Re: Looking to the possible future

That's the thing about sandbox games, end game content doesn't exist because end game is merely what an specific player makes it.  I know we all have to call our little niche the end of the game to stroke our ego, but what make mining one silly resource the end of the game?

Primary Laptop:  NEC Ready 120LT - Cyrix Media GXm @ 200 MHz, 128 MB EDO DRAM
NeoMagic MagicGraph 128 ZV+, 6 GB Hitachi 4200 RPM HDD, 24x CD-ROM, PCMCIA WiFI
Slackware Linux 8.1 - Framebuffer 640x480 Command Line Interface Only (No wimpy GUI)
-Delicious Raspberry Pi- http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Re: Looking to the possible future

Calling your end game into question isn't going to distract us Johnny... well, not all of us.

Butt, I agree, the end-game here is simply what players make of it. If for some reason, sitting in the terminal and bot spinning (with improved spins/hour counter) was determined to be worthwile, then new players could go mine epitron on beta while everyone else was busy doing important bot spinning.

Re: Looking to the possible future

My end game content is positively awesome and can indeed be reached in any MMO within the span of the first day.  However, bank sitting aside, I do agree that there are other things one can probably do in Perpy-Derpy-Doo.  I merely wanted to highlight the point that the end of the game is in the eye of the beholder.  Additionally, it can change from one day to the next at the slightest whim.

Primary Laptop:  NEC Ready 120LT - Cyrix Media GXm @ 200 MHz, 128 MB EDO DRAM
NeoMagic MagicGraph 128 ZV+, 6 GB Hitachi 4200 RPM HDD, 24x CD-ROM, PCMCIA WiFI
Slackware Linux 8.1 - Framebuffer 640x480 Command Line Interface Only (No wimpy GUI)
-Delicious Raspberry Pi- http://www.raspberrypi.org/