Topic: Changing the Combat Environment!

General weapon changes:
Projectile weapon (AC and MGs) weight decreased significantly.
Green bot bonuses and slots shifted to fitting and using ACs.
Missiles given significantly better alpha, but significantly lower rof. Also designed to hit the next size class up with full damage, doing less to same size class and nearly nothing to lower size class. Most bots have a slot or two available for fitting missiles. Missile range also dramatically increased.
Shields get an inherent bonus to resist against damage from missiles.
New RR mod: Projected Shield. Has higher AP/Damage cost than standard RR, but can be used on any allied bot (so RR has a speedy option for protecting an ally from inbound missile doom)


lights:
Main goal is to improve the viability of lights as a combat bot and as heavy tackle. Also turns the class itself into a versatile one with multiple roles.

General class change: lower mass slightly (nerfs plates a tad when combined with lwf on light) and raise base speed by 10kph.

+2 head slots, more CPU.

Add new light bot class with 100 detection and 130+ masking. Slightly lower base hp than the standard light, higher base speed. Only two head slots (demob + masker). Low CPU, but bot bonus reducing masker CPU significantly (8% per level?).

Add new light bot class with low cpu/grid but heavy class based reduction to fitting reqs on light RR. Also reduce cap use and cycle time on light RR (class bonus) as well as providing a bonus to light RR range. Slightly slower than base light bot.

assaults:
This bot should be the primary combat bot for the bot class, and should be able to stand toe to toe with mechs. Idea is that it takes more damage from mech guns but is better at resisting it and demobs because it is better at fitting plates. Trade off is significantly lower DPS, range and detection than a mech, but faster and better able to deal with mountainous terrain.

General class change:
raise mass significantly without changing base speed. Allows the assault to fit an armor plate without causing it to go super slow.
raise base hp by a good chunk.
raise surface area by a few points.

Add new assault class based around redesigned missiles. Same masking/detection as ewar bots. Bonus to range (allowing engage at 1 to 1.5km) and damage for missiles. Lower mass than same level assault to reduce effectiveness of tanking, also significantly lower base HP. Idea is to create a bot that requires support from gang members to hit distant targets (target painter mod) but can put out awesome alpha en masse every minute or so. Should have one fewer gun slot and low slot than assault of faction.


Mechs:

Generally seem fine, but should have a few more utility missile slots available than other bots -- easily converted into anti-hmech, but sans the range and dps advantages of the assault missilebots. When destroyers get added to the game, add a mech missile bot based on the assault missile bot for countering destroyers.

HMechs:
No changes to suggest here.

General Philosophy:

Currently the tactical counter to a given class in sufficient numbers is a bigger gang of the same thing or larger. This isn't smart. Imagine an RTS where the only counter to pikes was a larger group of pikes or a smaller number of super pikes that were the same thing but better in every way; just not a fun situation.

Instead game gets reoriented into a more rock paper scissors format, where any FOTM can be countered by bringing one of several appropriate counters. For instance, a group that uses mechs all the time could be countered by another group bringing missile assaults and some spotters. Those could be countered by light bots (especially the masky kind) or bringing RR with projected shields (or fitting personal shields), which could be countered by gun assaults or LR neuting ewar, which could be countered by mechs, etc etc. So rather than bringing more of the same (+ewar + rr) you've got a reason to diversify your gang into something more interesting to fight (or leave holes that can be exploited by a more balanced force). Rather than rewarding newbies by giving them low level I-WIN VS BIGGAR buttons, a system of this sort rewards the sort of people who have a ton of EP and can roll out in a good bot for any situation -- in effect rewarding versatility rather than ability to skill for and pay for a bigger bot than your targets. 

While many people enjoy using missiles on a day to day basis, not having a weapon designed for engaging larger enemies cripples bots when fighting something a size class up. It's especially disappointing that such an obvious (and fun) secondary weapon type with some potentially neat in game usages has been made into a workhorse weapon whose only advantage is being mediocre at everything other than ignoring terrain. While this does serve as something of a counter to mechs, it also provides them with a more reliable mechanism for engaging hmechs, and eventually ends with them getting the primary counter to the destroyer class.

I'd love to suggest some additional mech classes, but at the moment there doesn't seem to be much you can put in there. Stealth seems like a poor option for combat mechs, although it is indeed possible. Maybe a combat oriented RR bot that does worse than the standard options with RR, but is significantly sneakier and faster? Maybe a mech oriented around nexus mods? IDK! But I'd like to see some options for our mech brosefs other than just ewar and guns.


The last thing I want to talk about is how proud I am of the assault missile bot idea. I mean, this is a bot that relies on teamwork (in the form of TPs) to be effective. It has a low rof and loses masking when it attacks, so it'll pop up on scout radar the instant a launch goes off. Imagine the FC ordering them to alpha target and reposition, enemy scout calling out the fire location to masky light bots who get sent in to chase em, and this small skirmish battle going on while the mechs are duking it out. You have to admit that sounds way more fun than just calling a primary. It makes who and what to target, and when to fire, and when to reveal that there are missile bots on the field (which using a target painter would do) this big decision that has serious ramifications.

2 (edited by Grim Faust 2011-08-24 21:17:44)

Re: Changing the Combat Environment!

The whole rock, paper, scissors thing is a good idea. That's why the dev's are working on bot flavor right now by actually creating bots in a weight class ( light, assault etc ) that have diferent roles. I'm not sure if they've said what in particular they hope to try out, but something of what you touched on is already in the works. Combat right now is poorly structured. It's basically bringing ewar and guns to kill the webbed targets. Whomever has the most/biggest guns, wins. There's no real anti-insertrolehere. We can only hope the new roles that bots will have will be in good taste.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run

Re: Changing the Combat Environment!

Projectile weapon (AC and MGs) weight decreased significantly.
Green bot bonuses and slots shifted to fitting and using ACs.

/me spies ex-minmatar? It's okay... so am I *sigh*

Generally agreed on the post, too. Missiles should be neutral secondary weapons. All bots need to be viable (and not just as stepping stones). Whether you die should have more to do with meeting a counter to your fit, less with meeting someone that's older than you are.

The "focused" versions of existing bots that showed up in a dev blog (as Grim mentioned) look to go a long way toward your "creative counter" hopes. Combat in this game can only get better by borrowing core RTS concepts en masse.