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Topic: corp market

Hello all,
I feel like making a small rant about this very feature so here it comes;
Lot of ppl asked for this change, i see how their lazyness got heared and have no much else to say, besides that this feature hurts badlly a alrrdy weak market.
On the other hand this change should have some kind of countereffect. And i mean by this, that if Big Corps, want to be autosufficient kudos, but at same time the rest of players should have the right to leave them out of the market, remove anonimity in market so the rest of us can also choose who to buy; that would bring some little balance. Personally i liked how it was before; pure market pvp. With the corp market thing some prices rised without a explication and a lot of others are dissapeared form public market; this only good for those who dont need more help. I dont want to buy products from corporations who have such respectable tactic as its not helping the rest of competitors buying their products, killing the market at same time and making new players even more hard to compete.
TY+
ps: we can test if some of you that dont agree are the same ppl who said kernel nerf would have no influence over kernel comerce.:lol:

  • FOOM
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Re: corp market

Economics 101: 99.99% of people don't give a damn who is producing the goods they are buying. They care about the price of said goods.

  • CIR
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Re: corp market

Putting names on sell/buy orders would simply require players to start Market alts and/or promote market 'griefing' of small producers.

More then the corporate market, individual trading has had a greater impact on availablity of market items. This is players that choose to find a producer and buy direct, cutting out the market tax and ensuring they are not purchasing from bad people, without the help of an ingame mechanic that can be easily bypassed.

Also, the benefit of the corp market is in the support of capitalistic corporations which otherwise would have a tremendous logistic overhead in tracking internal transactions, and the game already highly favors socialist structures anyway. Self-suffcient corps don't 'need' the corp market as everything that is mined or farmed goes into the general fund, and bots/modules are provided free of charge.

  • CIR
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Re: corp market

I would pay extra for GnB original items! big_smile

  • FOOM
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Re: corp market

I think being able to see who's posting what on the market would actually make a big difference, for competitors anyway. Knowing your opponents is a big part of market warfare. To be able to take down someone on the markets you need to see where they're production is at and how they're pricing and moving goods. To say that you don't need to see who you're buying from is like saying you don't need to see who you're killing in PvP, just fire blindly in to your targets and hope you take down the threat. It's not very effective, especially if you want to make a lasting effect and devise plans to counteract certain parties and trends.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run
  • CIR
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Re: corp market

Nice thought Grim, but market PVP isn't the same as combat.

Lets say that I'm corportation X and I have a large wallet, and you are solo producer Y. I have decided to run you out of the market because you are starting to sell T4 items. I can now specifically target and undercut all your sell orders. But more important, I can out bid all your buy orders.

In combat, you can manuver around, in the Market you are in a fish bowl.

Or, as I stated, you have to create an alt and bypass the 'who' anyway.

tl;dr Knowing your competition only benefits big wallets and allows targeted griefing.

  • CIR
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Re: corp market

Grim Faust wrote:

I think being able to see who's posting what on the market would actually make a big difference, for competitors anyway. Knowing your opponents is a big part of market warfare. To be able to take down someone on the markets you need to see where they're production is at and how they're pricing and moving goods. To say that you don't need to see who you're buying from is like saying you don't need to see who you're killing in PvP, just fire blindly in to your targets and hope you take down the threat. It's not very effective, especially if you want to make a lasting effect and devise plans to counteract certain parties and trends.

But then you'd find out our secrets! I see what this is really about..

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Re: corp market

Again, as nobody made any valid counterargument.
Why, if i am in a corp i can choose to sell my mats ie to my corpmates ,. even with lower inmediate profit but i can not buy from a corp at my choice.
@ Guns, your 101 thing its plain wrong. Some other factors interfere in market besides price and we all know; proximity and timing are some, and politics could be also one if we had the tools.
@ Arga i dont agree either, the grieffing its now; where lots of products dont reach public market and those who do are generally more overpriced than before; hence newcomers are forced to compete on a market with no buyers (as your old corp can surelly suply much cheaper) and buy at more expensive prices. If i had the choice i would buy from small miners, corps even if it would be more expensive.
This alone might seem insignificant to you, but along with the kernel nerf its absolutelly killing market. Now its almost impossible to compete. Also last patch, making corp buy /sell orders EP free, its making this problem even worst. Where its the counterefect of leaving the public market? why individuals and small corps are in such disadvantage again? if i wanted to make money in market i had to sacrifice some ep, now people can save their ep´s and still get advantage from market.
I liked anonymity on market, you removed it parcially benefitting big corps again; hurting game ultiamtelly; remove all anonimity and give cookies for all.

  • FOOM
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Re: corp market

I've played other games heavily in the markets and seeing who my competition is was key to a lot of my success. When you know your targets you can see their markets and thus deduce the production chains they use and trends of trading/timing. With a little wizardry you can cut their supplies by pricing competitively (or ruthlessly...) on the markets. It's not about who has more money, although it does play a minor role, it's about constant pressure and making sales before the other person does. Everyone has their own thresholds and profit margins and a big part of taking someone down is finding their patterns. It's practically impossible to do so on an anonymous market. I don't really want to explain my market tactics all over the public board, but I can tell you, knowing your targets makes taking down their production chains and causing trouble a lot easier.

Take the long way around back to square one
Today we're just outlaws out on the run
  • FOOM
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Re: corp market

Hmm. Well I suppose I was ignoring the market warriors when i made my observation. Now that I think of it, I'd love to know which bastard keeps undercutting me on kinetic hardeners... grumble grumble.

  • CIR
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Re: corp market

I don't understand your arguement about corp market, I think you're confusing the fact that it has 'market' in the name. This feature could have been implemented under a different name, corporate distribution ledger, but it was quicker and simpler to reuse the existing market mechanic since it does exactly what is needed.

The logistics of logging and tracking NIC with an external spreadsheet is terrible and it required for an officer to be online and at the correct station to hand out modules to members. The ability for corps to provide for it's own members greatly outweighs the few sales on the open market from members that just couldn't wait for their indy officer to log in.

Independant producers still get the 'win' because corps can and will buy off the market, as well as individuals that can't get items through the corp.

And, with any post that contains the word "market", you have to assume that everything posted in there is an attempt to maniuplate or manage the player base in a way to benefit the poster...  big_smile