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Perpetuum Forums → Balancing → EWAR Lights too Cost-effective for PVP it makes other Bots Meaningless
there was a dps fitted intact too...
OH NO!
Try to pull that on our 3 Ewars and you will have 1 dead dps intact and allot of dead lolarids.
oh wow, you blobbed three small bots... and your proud of it?
That's was not the point... because:
fraps it, and add it to the m2s blog (corporation dialoge)
We did fraps it... now go QQ a bit more.
Druken M2S Laird Pilots can have more fun in this game in 1 hour than all of you during the last 2 months or so.
You guys just need to enjoy the game. The only thing in this game that needs a NERF is yours "Carebearism".
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit), and only the speed matters, you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to. And if you got ganked by nonewar light bots, actually you would die even faster, their dps is about the double of the ewars, and they could still run behind cover, or run out of range when get targeted (and much cheaper!).
I remember a time when there were really strong EW, and there was a Kain without LWF restriction.
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit), and only the speed matters, you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to. And if you got ganked by nonewar light bots, actually you would die even faster, their dps is about the double of the ewars, and they could still run behind cover, or run out of range when get targeted (and much cheaper!).
I remember a time when there were really strong EW, and there was a Kain without LWF restriction.
I'm glad to see you have no idea what's going on.
You've made a PVP game with optional PVP.
Now let's watch the game slowly die.
I wish that was some form of poem now.
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit)
Actually I think it would be great that the fastest robots were the light no ewar ones.
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit), and only the speed matters, you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to. And if you got ganked by nonewar light bots, actually you would die even faster, their dps is about the double of the ewars, and they could still run behind cover, or run out of range when get targeted (and much cheaper!).
I remember a time when there were really strong EW, and there was a Kain without LWF restriction.
If you get in a zennith you demob an ewar from 3-400m and then the rest kills them.
Problem is people aren't using them yet.
There is more time required for people to start properly using their bots.
You can't nerf it when people havn't starting using the counters to those bots.
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit), and only the speed matters, you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to. And if you got ganked by nonewar light bots, actually you would die even faster, their dps is about the double of the ewars, and they could still run behind cover, or run out of range when get targeted (and much cheaper!).
I remember a time when there were really strong EW, and there was a Kain without LWF restriction.
Speed advantage too great above all other classes of bots:
Yes you identified the main problem. In a game where speed is incredibly important, the speed of EWAR lights is too high over other bots that it makes other bots completely unable to catch them.
Too safe from getting caught:
It is already very very difficult to catch EWAR lights purely due to their speed. Putting EWAR on them as well makes them invulnerable as if you do catch them they can simply EWAR your lock off and run away.
Too safe from retaliation by targets when in swarms:
Also, please don't underestimate the power of the EW in SWARMS. It has cumulative effects and enables gangs to gank targets while being totally safe from any retaliation.
There should be some risk to PVP should there not?
Having uncatchable bots (speed + EWAR makes them way too safe) and that can gank targets in total safety (a swarm of EWAR bots simply EWARs targets until they cannot even kill one in retaliation).
And dirt cheap.
No wonder roaming (95% of PVP in Perpetuum) is all about EWAR lights and virtually no other bot.
Those little spiders are too useful to the point that they displaced the use of other classes of bot in too many situations.
Fix: Remove light ewar robots.
Else you'll just have to keep nerfing them. With what you have said above no matter what you do they'll always be like they are unless you remove their speed and then you might as well remove them.
In pvp you shouldnt use price as a balancing point
Set up a test environment and M2S will prove everything we've said in this thread first hand even though we do this every day.
wrong, they are not uselsess if they got their speed nerfed down to small bot speed
if you say so, then remove the tree factions and let us runn around with bonus-less robots and mechs.
EWAR bots have bonus on ewar, their hitsize is smaller and they have 9 module slots, unlike smalls with 7 and assaults with 11
also, your still thinking to linear. they will implement new robots, that will not have a special role aside of the existing ones. Like another set of assault robots, with different CPU/Reactor stats, or module slots.
i'd rather see assaults and lights get some loving rather then ewars getting the nerf hammer
Just make their runspeed same as other light robots!!111
I don't mind nerfing ewar bots as long you give us tools to replace ewar that can:
1# avoid detection
2# intercept targets
3# actually catch anyone who is not functionally ***.
Until you do that, nerfing ewar will remove our tools of trade, and remove my reason to play this game.
Until you do that, nerfing ewar will remove our tools of trade, and remove my reason to play this game.
Exactly, nerfing the only way we've to PvP atm.
Maybe the DEVs should remove the beta islands, add some dungeons on the alpha, and we can raid PvE gear all day 
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Just remove ewar bots AND safe zones,ill be happy 
My biggest problem is "you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to"
How can any one else read this and not despair?
We already never get a fight unless the enemy will with 100% surety get at least 1 kill.
This isn't a PVP game with tactics any more. Add arenas and be done with it. I don't care about the ewar speed nerf, it won't change anything. We'll still catch the idiots while the "Sandstorm" avoided dock up.
That's it, this game is a Sandstorm PVP game. "Oh shi- here they come! DOCK UP, GET TO THE TELEPORTS. THEY'RE ON THE ISLAND DO NOT DEPLOY."
I am sorry to say it but you're not balancing the game and coming up with new ideas. You're trying to reworking other MMO ideas into a game that's already been half balanced. And like every crappy balance change we'll weather it and the credibility of this game will fall.
There already is a counter to ewar gangs... We ran into a couple of them last night. Just bring a few ewars and equal numbers of assaults... and don't MOVE AWAY FROM EACHOTHER TOO FAR. A 10 person ewar gang cannot do much against a tightly formed 10 person assault bot group. I suppose you could coordinate supps and ECMs somehow to give you a chance, but just a couple of waspishes firing on the same ewar target will get popped in a hurry.
I'm disappointed to hear that ewar speed might be nerfed when this is largely a L2P issue.
And lastly, I don't know what makes you think ewar bots are so cheap. These days I'm driving around in a cameleon that is probably worth about 10 million NIC, if not more, if I were to sell it and all its modules on the market. They're called t4 modules, and they're not cheap.
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit), and only the speed matters, you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to. And if you got ganked by nonewar light bots, actually you would die even faster, their dps is about the double of the ewars, and they could still run behind cover, or run out of range when get targeted (and much cheaper!).
I remember a time when there were really strong EW, and there was a Kain without LWF restriction.
The proper counter to an ewar group is ANOTHER EWAR GROUP with LIGHT AND ASSAULT BACKUP! not reduce ewar speed.
Alf, you may be a dev, but making PVP a concensual thing on beta islands is the worst possible idea which only a carebear could conceive. Beta = risk, you can be attacked at any time, or attack at any time. This is what makes it exciting and dynamic. If PVP ever becomes a matter of mutual consent on beta, or just arena based, the first thing any avid PVPer will do is quit this game. It would be the worst possible decision if you want a dynamic, exciting, and sandbox environment...
regular light bots need some love to actually be viable in pvp, so my suggesting would be to improve their speed or something to counter ewar.
Nerfing ewar is not needed because they are fine as they are now. But the regular light bots just have no purpose atm (to slow/ want dps take an assault) So increasing their speed would atleast give them a role as a possible counter against ewar.
EW light bots' strength is not the EW itself, only their speed (and that will be nerfed a bit), and only the speed matters, you can engage in combat when you want to engage, you are not forced to fight, until you want to. And if you got ganked by nonewar light bots, actually you would die even faster, their dps is about the double of the ewars, and they could still run behind cover, or run out of range when get targeted (and much cheaper!).
I remember a time when there were really strong EW, and there was a Kain without LWF restriction.
I totally agree with the Dev's assessment.
However, I love speed. How about making a more advanced class of special ops bot that is dedicated to recon? For example:
Pros: fast, bonus to chassis scanner range, possible cloak (?when stationary)
Cons: weak, with a possible penalty to damage-dealing and EW.
I'm assuming that alf is trolling you all, as making changes like that before the game has matured to take into account all the other factors such as higher level skills, ewar mechs etc would be at best I'll conceived and worst a lame *** knee jerk reaction to whiny players that want their epic purple gear straight away.
It only just hit me now how alarming the nerfing of ewar speed would be right now. Please, for the love of everything that you love, please do not nerf ewar speed.
Let players play the game a little more and figure out ways around this "issue". Also, as my esteemed colleague Jelan has pointed out, let players get some EP built up so we have properly skilled and fitted EWar Mechs and mechs running around before you make a silly decision like nerfing ewar speed.
I don't see the point of nerfing ewar speed at all if they are still going to be faster than assaults and mechs, nothing will change. If you make them around the same speed as assaults then you've radically redefined the purpose/balance of the bot based on a kneejerk reaction.
Using these bots a lot it is obvious to any experienced player how to counter them, either with fast tacklers who slow you down for their heavy hitters, or simply by moving as a group in a phalanx type formation and not letting them pick off stragglers. Even the fastest ewar group can be boxed in with multiple fast tacklers and trapped. Don't kill the diversity of the different bot types by normalizing speed, because other things are sure to follow and soon we end up with a bland game full of bots that are barely different from each other.
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