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Topic: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Hi all,
I'm ANT and I make a living as a designer and CM.
I used to play EvE, but space was too slow.
PO however hit right home for me.
As I love and play the game I also can't help but be bothered by those pesky things my profession makes me notice and be aware of the implications...

Avatars:
This is the single biggest issue PO has at the moment.
No I'm not kidding. Bugs, design, pop, all less important.
See the key to selling a product is the sell the package instead.
People would buy turds if it came in gold wrapping.
Avatars in PO are.. Well it's horrid, we all know it.
And should you log *where* most new accounts log out never to return, I can assure you it's in that part of the creation.
I sincerely hope this is THE biggest priority to fix right now. As a rough estimate says you're losing 10-25% of new players because of it.

Mechs:
PO will Never get rid of the 'EvE copy' label, we all know that.
Not a bad thing, it doesn't hurt the brand.
However, when people compare, they compare what they see.
And it was the first thing after the avatars that struck me too.
I don't see it when playing now, it doesn't bother me, but new players do:
Mechs are Very low res. And compared to EvE? Well it's not even a discussion.

The rest:
While the UI is doable, the tutorials aren't horrid, the stats are...
When creating your char, when adding extensions, when looking at it.
There's far too little info and far too much data, causing far too much "???" among new players (Hell you're implementing a EP reset....)
This together with the in-game HELP search needs some urgent attention as well,
as the information a game gives a user defines what the user thinks is the DEVs interest in the user.
Simply put: Haphazard information says haphazard job done and haphazard developers.
True or not, that IS the message it sends.
Further the crash in the launcher (C++) goes to set up a picture for the new user.


Having played PO for a while now, these things are really bothering me.
Because they give a false impression of PO.
That it's ugly. Low budget. And not very thought through.
I just hope these details will be sorted very soon, as it is now a month after launch and your main priority should be growth. Money makes the world go round.
And I want PO to be great. Which is why I bothered to make this post,
because small holes can sink ships, and I really like this boat. Please keep it afloat?

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

you have some good points, and your thought process ( sad though it may be ) is sound. the issue is that the game IS low budget, and it's hard for the designers to keep up on a regular basis I'm sure. That being said, they're very involved with the game, and I would like to think they'll be implementing these things as well. Let's toast to it, and enjoy the game while we wait!

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3 Reply by Jon Farmer (edited by Jon Farmer 2010-12-21 22:59:36)

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Good points ... when I first read about the game, I thought ... Eve meets Mechwarrior, I have waited years this ... when I final logged in ... it was Eve meets Mechwarrior meets Anarchy Online. A new game that looked very old, I was a bit disappointed. Then I played and had FPS issues and was even more disappointed. It was AO with all of the graphics turned down. My machine, while not a gaming machine (Dell T7400), should be more than able to handle this game. sad

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

What's important to note here is the these replies are from Actual players.
The newbies are far less optimistic.

And yes. The game is low budget.
The problem is that it shows early. And it shouldn't.

Keep in mind that the Majority of games today is mostly shiny gfx with shallow content (I'm looking at you FPS genre.) and kids these days will more often than not. Sadly. Ask "does it look good?" before "Is it fun".
While sad, also reality.

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

ANT wrote:

What's important to note here is the these replies are from Actual players.
The newbies are far less optimistic.

And yes. The game is low budget.
The problem is that it shows early. And it shouldn't.

Keep in mind that the Majority of games today is mostly shiny gfx with shallow content (I'm looking at you FPS genre.) and kids these days will more often than not. Sadly. Ask "does it look good?" before "Is it fun".
While sad, also reality.


I'm very shiny object oriented. I pay top dollar for all my computer equipment and keep up with latest products, so I want games to keep up with the times. This DirectX 9 bullshit bugs me and the avatars I agree are horrid.

Apart from this game being like a cell phone version of EvE I don't know if I am coming back to the game. Just quit a few days ago, but I am still checking the forums and news updates for info and I will continue to gain EP during my absence, but for now this game has so much potential, but I kind of feel like it did the FFXIV thing and came out too early.

This game to me is like playing a Sandbox RPG without a story line. Without any real sense of accomplisment from doing anything other than PvP. The missions are real dull. I mean can we please get away from the grind fest? It has been like a decade long of grind fest PvE style gameplay. Go kill 10 of these collect 5 of these from those. SSDD.

Everything this game has to offer has been done before and done better over time. To release a precooked game and make it close to the #1 MMO on one site confuses me. That is the only reason I came to play this is because a site said it was awesome and ranked above all but one MMO. I don't know how it got that and it beats me, but more power to you I guess.

  • JOKE
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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Ok, OP has some very good points, however the post above my highlights that different people have different expectations.

Having been at launch of many mmo's this was smooth as ***, again massive kudos to the guys for making that happen.

Although avatars for me meant nothing, i have friends that spend a lot of time making themselves look just right (i hit random tongue)

However, i would love this game to grow and grow, as an ex eve player of many years it does feel more personal being on terra firma.

So tl:dr i agree with the op, but its all about priorities, i dont know their financial model, but obviously the more money they have, the greater the game can become so appealling to as many markets as possible will bring that in.

Long live Perpetuum and the guys that brought us it o7

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

20% of precentages are made up.

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Oh ur a paid CM and dev that makes your opinions matter more, right?  Good post still, but this made me lol almost as much as the guy demanding respect just because he served in the military.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki
  • VACHE
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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Neoxx wrote:

Oh ur a paid CM and dev that makes your opinions matter more, right?  Good post still, but this made me lol almost as much as the guy demanding respect just because he served in the military.

I agree. It's amazing how anyone who's ever played a game suddenly becomes an expert in every aspect of the industry, from development to marketing.

Even more importantly, they feel a need to tell everyone what their "expert" opinion is, which somehow always predicts the game's failure, especially if the devs/company/marketers don't implement every one of the poster's suggestions.

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Oh yeah, in before "It's not PO!"

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

11 Reply by ANT

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Actually I just use my job as trollbait and to keep the thread bumped.
Thanks for the help on that note.

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

been staring at the horrible textures  on the back of my bot too long now. Oh and make this thread about neoxx or he will make you regret making it

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

The character creation is pretty terrible. I honestly would have preferred 20ish pre-rendered (or hand drawn) good looking avatar icons over what is currently the avatar creation. Sure a bunch of people would have had the same avatar icons, but honestly how often do you see player avatars?

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Cal Sinai wrote:

The character creation is pretty terrible. I honestly would have preferred 20ish pre-rendered (or hand drawn) good looking avatar icons over what is currently the avatar creation. Sure a bunch of people would have had the same avatar icons, but honestly how often do you see player avatars?

No, no, you don't understand: Avatars are the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE Perpetuum has.

Look, a guy who plays games said it, so it has to be true.

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

"My transaction log shows all my NIC was from selling kernals.  All of it."
"Savin's outrage tears are the best tears." - Anonymous ***
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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

ad hominem is the weapon of the desperate

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

I'm sure you think so.

All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful - Kohelet Rabbah 7:16

"My transaction log shows all my NIC was from selling kernals.  All of it."
"Savin's outrage tears are the best tears." - Anonymous ***
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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

I agree, it needs to look better generally. Fallen Earth looked like *** when it came out and it never got the neccesary subs as a consequence. It's not just the avatars. The world is very bland and generic, texturing, though not as bd as FE, isn't great. It all round needs a facelift. It is an indie game on a low budget but the graphics shouldn't be looked at as icing on the cake. To attract more players it needs to look attractive.

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

If the game looks like *** it better have amazing gameplay/story combat mechanics or SOMETHING to compensate. PO has none of the above: it looks and feels like a soviet hotel in 1980ies

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Did the Devs roll their own graphics engine for P, or is it a commercial product?

If they rolled their own it could be a while. CCP spent significant time and money to redo theirs. Took a couple of years.

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

We understand that for some of you the visual appeal of the game doesn't feel on par with the AAA titles you usually see in the mmorpg world. That's because for now we're in a whole different category, especially when it comes to budget and team size. We strongly feel that for now our priorities should be about the game breaking issues and exploits - not being on par visually with other games doesn't fall into that category.
That said, we're constantly working on ways to make the client perform better and thus be able to handle more and better looking graphical content. The following months will hopefully see the numbers of the development team grow which will make handling all the different aspects of the game a lot easier.

  • PRIDE
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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

@OP
Avatar visuals are the least important thing in this game. In game you are appearing as a robot and robot visuals are quite good.
You say package sells the products. It does to stupid people. Smart people will first read contains, technical parameters etc. and then decide to buy or not regardless of package. This game is quite complicated and I thing it attracts mostly smart people

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Dev BoyC wrote:

We understand that for some of you the visual appeal of the game doesn't feel on par with the AAA titles you usually see in the mmorpg world. That's because for now we're in a whole different category, especially when it comes to budget and team size. We strongly feel that for now our priorities should be about the game breaking issues and exploits - not being on par visually with other games doesn't fall into that category.
That said, we're constantly working on ways to make the client perform better and thus be able to handle more and better looking graphical content. The following months will hopefully see the numbers of the development team grow which will make handling all the different aspects of the game a lot easier.

Great News BoyC.

I hope that you and your team have continued success. You've done a tremendous job with this game so far on the low budget you had to work with. I can't wait to see what new and exciting content you release in the new year.

Graphics are nice, but I'd be willing to 'bet dollars to donuts' that most of us would rather have a nice clean lag free game then shinny state of the art avatars.

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

Dev BoyC wrote:

We understand that for some of you the visual appeal of the game doesn't feel on par with the AAA titles you usually see in the mmorpg world. That's because for now we're in a whole different category, especially when it comes to budget and team size. We strongly feel that for now our priorities should be about the game breaking issues and exploits - not being on par visually with other games doesn't fall into that category.
That said, we're constantly working on ways to make the client perform better and thus be able to handle more and better looking graphical content. The following months will hopefully see the numbers of the development team grow which will make handling all the different aspects of the game a lot easier.

Thank you for posting here. smile

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Re: ANT ponders PO (pt 1: Strutting your stuff)

What's so bad about the avatars?

They're overall comical, smooth and clean looking. What more do you want?

I mean this is a strategical robot rpg, you really shouldn't have been expecting to be able to recreate your favourite porn-star so you can fap while you shoot. Or mr. beefcake so you can seduce previously mentioned porn-stars who without a doubt look the same IRL as their avatars do and are doubtlessly cute as well since they're too shy to come on vent.

Better robot and world graphics I can agree on, atleast when the other issues are fixed. But what exactly are you expecting from the avatars?

*Insert really awesome sig here*