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Topic: More extension requirements for robots

Cassius wrote:

The current 20k starting EP plus the 20k bonus EP and added to the additional 20 160 EP a new player can earn over the course of his/her 2 week trial allows a new player to essentially step into a heavy mech within their first month of gameplay. While the train of thought seems to be more EP = happier and more skilled = sub for game, I think in reality it has backfired completely.

What is happening is new players rush into mechs and heavies because of the "bigger is better" mentality and completely skip the light and assault bots. This results in a player sitting in a mech and heavy with absolutely minimal supplemental skills and unable to do anything effectively, resulting in a very frustrated new player who is unlikely to remain in game.

This is from another topic but I didn't want to derail that. However I've been having the same feeling for some time.

How about we add some more extension requirements to use certain robots? The current requirements are indeed just the bare minimum.

We could add weapon usage extensions (e.g. mediums for heavy mechs), maybe some minimal electronics/engineering ones, specific module extensions that the robot gets a bonus for, etc. Extensions that those who use the robots day by day would have anyway, but those who just want to control a heavy mech by any means necessary may not have yet.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

An example for the Gropho:

Current requirements:
Pelistal robot control 8
Advanced robotics 4

I would add:
Advanced ballistics 1
Seismics 5
Improved shield technology 2
Energy management 5
Accumulator expansion 5
Mechanics 5
Reactor expansion 5
Data processing 5

(And of course every prerequisite that these extensions need.)

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

Obvious improvement smile

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4 Reply by Zortarg Calltar (edited by Zortarg Calltar 2014-02-18 00:19:39)

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

i agree. more requirements for mech and heavy might be a good idea. at least for the combats.

for industry i think it would be fine. if it would be fair is another question.

edit:
maybe for the heavys a bit mor supporting skills. even some more expensive ones. especially the ones that are essential for heavy fittings: optimized and economical weapon usage.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

Zoom, a lot of it will have to do with how well your "new player experience island" actually works. I firmly believe training the player to play the game, first, before he starts advancing, is the way to retain players rather than an EP boost up front.  Thats why I suggested a boost after a set period of time, to allow the player to use the smaller class bots and learn tactics.

Upping the EP requirements to drive a heavy is a good idea, but if you give all the new players enough EP to start you are back at square one. I hope the "NPE" teaches the noobs about fitting skills and what skills are useful for whatever the main career they choose for their toon.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I don't like it in the least.. The market should and will dictate how quickly a person (new player) will progress.. The biggest problem lies with the vets that are far to nice / giving with resources. I started this game a year ago and was not in one of the mega corps for the first month.. This allowed me the time to work for what I needed and to get a grasp , albeit a minor one , on what I needed to do and how to go about doing it.. I think it should be on us the players to not ruin the experience for the new comers and leave the code time for more important stuff like , I don't know , fixing the lag that will force new and old players away. Just my .02¢

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I can also get to L2 missions in one day.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I still recommend people to get into mechs as fast as possible, be it industry or combat. I find that they can make Nic faster in mechs over assaults and lights. Not sure if it is as true for combats as industrials, but it is definetaly true for indys. I just feel like the quicker they can start earning decent income the better off they will be long term.

But the topic still holds value I think. It would probably be a good thing to add some more requirements, I just worry we will make life too hard for newbs to start making NIC if they are too steep.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I agree that HM's are accessible to quickly but adding in more extension requirements is not the way to fix it.

In theory you should need supporting skills to pilot all of the Mechs in the game.

^^ So then would you add these supporting skills to all of the Mechs in order to balance the requirements across the board for all mechs? effectively doubling the amount of EP it costs to even pilot a basic assault, ewar, hauler, miner etc?

^^ This sounds like you plan to only have the current mechs in game for the foreseeable (3+ years) future.

I think there should be vastly more requirements for MK3 MK4 or other advanced robots, But a HM should be considered a "first step" in the long view of this game. because it is going to take that new player 1 year or more of dedicated EP to get the skills needed to fully experience that MK1 HM he just rushed into.

I do not think the new players experience will be benefited by making the current mechs less accessible, rather you should give them more options as a new player which means new bots that are light and assault class <~ but that's another topic. 

In the end it doesn't really matter what you do to try to balance and re balance the game if there is nothing new for people do then you know what happens.

TL;DR ~ new more complex skill requirements for new bots ... not current ones!

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I think greater requirements is a good idea, but I also think as new bots/equipment/industrial mods/skills become available there should be more consideration for new players having even a tougher time catching up with vets players.  There should be at least some consideration for fins EP system.  He's put a lot of thought into it and he's been working on this idea for a long time.  It has merit and eventually I believe some sort of system should be implemented to close the gulf between new players and the vets.

http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topi … w-players/

The above link is to Fin's post about a simple EP system that can help new players catch up to the vets

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

So on one hand, we want newbies to try a new robot sooner. On other hand, we don't want them to get in heavies ASAP. So here is a brand new idea - T0 Robotz!

Comparing to t1,

they have -1 slot in legs/head
they have lesser cpu/reactor
they have less bonuses

BUT

they have less extension requirements
they require lesser resources to build
opt.: they don't need rare maths at all
their CT can be obtained from Elite NPC drops

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12 Reply by Goffer (edited by Goffer 2014-02-18 08:00:17)

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I agree that there should be additional skills before entering a HM.
I would suggest Accu/Reactor/CPU Skills, but no Mechanics, for green bots, but shield requirement for green HM is also wrong. There should be freedom of player to deceide himself wheter he uses shield or hp. Also having shield needed for Blue HM would be ridiculous.

And for Mech it should be no weapon/Miner/Harvest skill at all. As there are tasks to field riveler that have nothing to do with mining. And when it comes to large fleet battle, I remember that we had in a group of kain two RR Kains, don't like to see indu pilots unable to do this again, if player number rises back to a number when you can field 20+ Kain for an operation.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

Tux wrote:

^^ So then would you add these supporting skills to all of the Mechs in order to balance the requirements across the board for all mechs? effectively doubling the amount of EP it costs to even pilot a basic assault, ewar, hauler, miner etc?

No, this is mainly aimed at the heavier/specialized bots. Like my example for heavy mechs, fewer for mechs and ewar robots, something minimal for assaults, and no change for lights.

Tux wrote:

^^ This sounds like you plan to only have the current mechs in game for the foreseeable (3+ years) future.

That's not the case at all.

Goffer wrote:

but shield requirement for green HM is also wrong.

Um, why? Shield usage is one of the bonuses of a Gropho.

Goffer wrote:

Also having shield needed for Blue HM would be ridiculous.

My example was specially for the Gropho, not all heavy mechs.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

I think maybe the balance would be to add a new class of mech.   Humanity did well with tanks.  Perhaps humans could implement a low ep tank class to the game.  So far we are just using nian tech, where is human ingenuity come into the war on nia?  A mech and heavy mech tank would be very low ep and allow players a fast way to end game content with some usefulness.  Then from there they can branch out into the power classes.  I'm thinking heavy mech tank with mediocre armor, few head slots, and only 4 med weapons...  Nothing that would rule the battlefield, but nothing that could be ignored in numbers.

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Re: More extension requirements for robots

Being a new player my self, and being active on EVE which from what I understand gave some inspiration to make Perpetuum, here is what I think:

1. Reqs can be good if not too steep cause they can show what a player needs to be at least a bit proficient with a robot. Another case would make something like EVE and certificates/achievements tied to mech handling proficiency so a newbie knows the skills to focus for being good at it. Sure it needs some coding but would make newbies adjust and eventually stay in game. The vets part on it would be advise newcomers to finish the achievements/certifications for the mech/role they want. Right guidance and friendly community is often what a new player needs

2 I tried the game 1 month + trial in 2012 and I can tell you this game needs more mechs to look a more complete work since back then. Why not have a remote reps bonus category mech for example? And what is the point of having small and medium weapons when max is medium? I mean you may it look a beta stage game. Either Rename to normal and large size weapons or make the heavies too. Same way you could go for a dreadnaught class of mechs that cant hit at all mechs and miss medium and heavy ones often but can hit hard structures. You could make a transport mech that transports Players inside for surprise attack. It would give more strategies in pvp. My point is you can add meaningfully more mech that can give more strategic options, and give Depth in PVP tactics, the options are countless, I just mentioned a couple coming to mind

3. To get a decent population you need to handle server stability. The most annoying thing for a player is not being able to log or lagging so much he is forced to stay in a terminal all day. Also keep in mind players pay a subscription for it, some for multiple accounts and are losing time

4. I have been reading things about islands and danger factor towards cost. The logical would be the deeper and least safe you venture the more rewarding it gets. Every lvl deeper give a bit more in advantages(example resource spawns to be more and richer) Also gives a reason for PVP battles over strategic resources as well as diplomacy.

I dont say all that is doable , and pretty sure they can cost you time and money, but from a newbie players perspective who played mostly similar games(sandboxes) that is what I think best. Since I am new to the game if I did any mistake correct me but I thought it would be to your benefit a new player to give his views