1 Topic by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-17 17:28:01)

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Topic: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

The conditions of the Gamma islands changed a lot after Epriton got moved to Betas only and seems like worst is yet to come with the Spark system change. Living on a single island gets a huge usability hit, not to mention if you were brave enough to expand into multiple islands using them all becomes unthinkable.

What I propose is the option to get islands*  reimbused you no longer want to keep. A lot of work has gone into them but they were populated with different game state.

What has gone into populating a Gamma island:
- Structures: time for mining and manufacturing.
- Work hours for building and hauling structures.
- Terraforming costs.

While getting everything imbused would probably be hard to pull off, I think getting minerals/commodities from structures and terraforming costs back would be close enough. I think this is something that should be discussed with people exclusively invested on Gammas so I urge everyone to keep their trolling contained in other threads.

(Terraforming cost can be calculated quite precisely if you have unmodified heightmap and a crystal ball. Right?)


* Or just structures if you don't fully own the island.


// In other news. Wouldn't the game be better off without Gammas at all? yarr

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I'm still waiting on my reimbursement for walls lol lol lol Good luck with that. 62nd and War lost 6 members and a great fc due to walls.

Anonymous: lobo is the only hero left in this god foresaken game / :also, Lobo is god among men
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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Burial wrote:

tldr:: You changed things, gimme stuff back yarr

I'm sure you guys have more than made the nic you invested in Gamma.  Didn't you post that one of your guys is worth more than our whole corp combined? (the guy who lost his Mk2 Lithus full of t4 mods).

Our corp lost 50%+ of our wealth and many members due to the walls change (going from permanent to temporary).

And you guys still have your gamma island and structures -> our walls magically disappeared in 21 days. From my viewpoint you guys are still in a very good position.

4 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-17 17:48:38)

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Like I said initially, I think this should only be discussed with people invested on Gamma. Keep your derailing and trolling to other threads and let us focus on the issue.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I'm here to harvest tears.  Burial mind stepping towards the bucket?

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Burial wrote:

The conditions of the Gamma islands changed a lot after Epriton got moved to Betas only and seems like worst is yet to come with the Spark system change. Living on a single island gets a huge usability hit, not to mention if you were brave enough to expand into multiple islands using them all becomes unthinkable.

What I propose is the option to get islands*  reimbused you no longer want to keep. A lot of work has gone into them but they were populated with different game state.

What has gone into populating a Gamma island:
- Structures: time for mining and manufacturing.
- Work hours for building and hauling structures.
- Terraforming costs.

While getting everything imbused would probably be hard to pull off, I think getting minerals/commodities from structures and terraforming costs back would be close enough. I think this is something that should be discussed with people exclusively invested on Gammas so I urge everyone to keep their trolling contained in other threads.

(Terraforming cost can be calculated quite precisely if you have unmodified heightmap and a crystal ball. Right?)


* Or just structures if you don't fully own the island.


// In other news. Wouldn't the game be better off without Gammas at all? yarr

-1 basicly this says, "i dont want to have to travel to a gamma base and put a spark and assets in there and defend it when the enemy shows"

A option to wipe and reimburse gamma bases would be abused,

base under attack, dont have spark there = wipe and reimburse
dont have spark here either = wipe and reimburse

such easy moders smile

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I'm talking about a single time thing for bases that have been built pre-patch.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Given that you were happy to kill other peoples gammas off the back of other changes I find the idea pretty lolworthy.

What were you saying when other gammas died?

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I was talking about the walls I spent my life savings of nic to put up thinking that they would be like they had for 2 months permanent then what do you know walls die.......

Pre-patch walls no nicy nic

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10 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-17 18:11:52)

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

There's a big difference between player-vs-player and the developer-vs-player interaction. If a player kills a gamma, it's fair and square. Oppodents have the option to show up and defend and if they do not, it's their own fault.

Gammas require commitment and if someone thinks they aren't able to hold their interest in the game, they should not expect the other players to keep their Gamma going. This game doesn't have a Pause button.

If developers change the game so a lot of work by many players become worthless, it should get reimbused as a sign of good faith and to keep the trust with players. As far as I've played the game, it has almost always happened.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I would support a full wipe of all gammas with no reimbursement provided gamma mechanics were changed alongside Merkles idea of island like bases. This would make gammas able to be roamed and would be good for the game.

Perhaps we could do this at steam release and you could ask the devs to remove and put in your hanger everything that is built currently?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

12 Reply by Ville (edited by Ville 2013-11-17 18:11:05)

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

you mean like when a developer changes the build range of a gamma island and your now placed Gamma is worthless?  AMIRTIE ARGA?

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13 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-17 18:13:08)

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Jita wrote:

I would support a full wipe of all gammas with no reimbursement provided gamma mechanics were changed alongside Merkles idea of island like bases. This would make gammas able to be roamed and would be good for the game.

Perhaps we could do this at steam release and you could ask the devs to remove and put in your hanger everything that is built currently?

Just /delete and reimbuse. Add few beta islands and the game will grow. smile

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Burial wrote:

If developers change the game so a lot of work by many players become worthless, it should get reimbused as a sign of good faith and to keep the trust with players. As far as I've played the game, it has almost always happened.

But Burial its exactly because of developer changes that you were able to kill those bases.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Burial wrote:

There's a big difference between player-vs-player and the developer-vs-player interaction. If a player kills a gamma, it's fair and square.


Yes, you are correct, but your Gamma is still standing

"...we will take undefended gammas and stations."  -Cassius of STC

16 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-17 18:23:39)

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

That's the propaganda of your side but you know just as well as I do that killing an unprotected Gamma base is just a question of time. There currently are and never has been bases that are unconquerable.

I hope to get more voices on this matter by different Gamma CEOs and Zoom!

Mongolia Jones wrote:
Burial wrote:

There's a big difference between player-vs-player and the developer-vs-player interaction. If a player kills a gamma, it's fair and square.


Yes, you are correct, but your Gamma is still standing

That's a fair point but the problem is not about that.

It's about turning a lot of peoples effort worthless. We were always under the assumption that Gammas are for the "empire builder" types and acted accordingly. We worked, built and expanded not expecting the games direction to cardinally change towards the single-island mentality.

I think the current Gamma situation is very similar to simple example of extension losing it's value. What happens with the extension when that happens? It gets reset and reimbused, leaving people with the choice of training it if they wish, with the new conditions.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I certainly think that gamma needs a massive shake up before steam and the spark change seems a good time to do it.

I think a full reimbursement is too much (unless you do it historically with anyone who's built one in the past).

Why don't we make another threadnaught agreeing as far as possible what to change it too and then worry about the reimbursement?

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

18 Reply by Burial (edited by Burial 2013-11-17 18:42:22)

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

I'm currently counting my hours before our Gamma overlords kick me for saying it lol, but I sincerely think Gamma islands are the root of all evil this game is under right now. Epriton change is really good but it just forces people to throw a mining OP or three every week or so while keeping most of the mining, farming and building still in the un-roamable/safe zones of Alpha and Gamma. It leaves PVP stagnant, economy broken, people bored.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Ohh u have to choose where to live, how bad sad

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Burial wrote:

I'm currently counting my hours before our Gamma overlords kick me for saying it lol, but I sincerely think Gamma islands are the root of all evil this game is under right now. Epriton change is really good but it just forces people to throw a mining OP or three every week or so while keeping most of the mining, farming and building still in the un-roamable/safe zones of Alpha and Gamma. It leaves PVP stagnant, economy broken, people bored.

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Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Jita wrote:

I think a full reimbursement is too much (unless you do it historically with anyone who's built one in the past).

Full reimbusement is really hard to pull off too.

I have never thought of Perpetuum as a game but more as some sort of (weird robot experimental) simulator. You work and reap the benefits of the ecosystem you build around yourself and your corporation. Terraforming, building and doing all those other mundane task is not fun, it's work and you spend a lot of time doing it on Gamma. Work is something that's really hard to imbuse to the players, but something as easy as NIC, materials and such should be reimbused just as a sign of respect for your customers.

I'm not saying we will quit or anything if that doesn't happen, but I also wouldn't understand why the devs wouldn't do it.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

i think the walls debacle would have been fine if they had removed them from the islands and put up an npc buy order. They can do the same with gamma.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

No reimbursement.

Figure out exactly what needs to change and why.
Notify the current Gamma holders what change will occur, ie structure limits and bases per island, etc.
Give them 3 months to reconform their islands with decon charges or whatever.

Then change, but make sure its the right *** change.
Doesnt matter what side you are on there are two things we all agree on.

We want this game to work.
The current Gammas don't work.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Atticus, this thread is not about any changes to Gamma, it's just a response to the recent changes with Epriton and Spark system.

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Re: Option to reimbuse Gamma islands

Burial wrote:

Atticus, this thread is not about any changes to Gamma, it's just a response to the recent changes with Epriton and Spark system.

Then absolutely no reimbursement. Even with these changes our Gammas when defended are impregnable. All these changes do is *** inter island logistics and create much more tedious hauling and back and forth. Our response time to an attack becomes slower, but our defenses are more than adequate until we have mobilzed. We wont lose any gammas directly because of these changes. It just makes the average gamma mining carebears life very difficult, for no reason.

There is no reason for a reimbursement, with these changes.