Topic: Login ambush attacking.....

A sad tactic being used in pvp lands to minimize lose and maximize gain.... If you see a weaker group/solo person you log in 10 bots as they pass an area.(using vent) If more numbers are coming you stay logged out. keep one person at the teleporter to watch for incs and a high speed demobbing arkhe in the distance... Silly tactic thats going to only inconvience everyone when you either can't log out for 20 minutes after pvping, auto port back to alpha terminals upon logging in in pvp area, or theres a stupid no pvp timer when you log in. (that in itself can be abused to carry goods while shielded)

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

You're suggesting that dev's are going to change the login/out mechanic?

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Does it make sense that you log out and back in outside of a terminal?  Where does your bot go in the mean time?

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Login traps ftw, be prepared!

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

I'm not trying to start a reality check on the mechanic. I haven't heard they are looking to change it.

I don't think it is a good idea to have a timer, if you get disconnected and can't get back in for 20 min because of a timer that is going to be frustrating. There's no way to determine if a disconnect was intentional either, so if you just put a timer on the player selected logoff, players will simply unplug the router or force quit the application.

Porting the player to the nearest base sounds like a built in transporter, since there can't be a timer, I just logoff and poof teleported to the nearest hanger or other such landmark.

The disconnect thing covers requiring people to log off/on from hangers only.

You could suggest the game be a total bastard and leave your bot where it is if you get disconnected, but really I'm not sure there is enough storage on this server to handle the threads that would start about people losing bots to this mechanic.

I would say if it had to change, the least offensive/exploitable would be moving you to the nearest hanger; although I doubt that they will change this mechanic.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Put a 2 min timer on logging in, if your on beta islands and not in an outpost.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Lege wrote:

Put a 2 min timer on logging in, if your on beta islands and not in an outpost.

No no and no, what if I'm out mining and we come under attack and I have to swap to my combat char?

Always be suspicious, especially if you are heading to a hostile island, don't be a dumbass and risk it, go in through a different route voila

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Who said this game doesn't have cloaking lol

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Jelan wrote:

Always be suspicious, especially if you are heading to a hostile island, don't be a dumbass and risk it, go in through a different route voila

Being aware of shortest distance trade routes and setting up an ambush seems like good strategy. It certainly adds an additional layer of complexity to trading and like Micheal Weston says, "Patterns are bad, good spys avoid them like the plauge and exploit them in others." ... or he would say that, use the Burn notice voice in your head when you read that, it sounds cool...no really, it does   hmm

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Metagaming for the win.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

whats wrong with setting up ambushes?  Like powering down your mech in a forest when playing battle tech.  That was good stuff.  I feel the game is better for having an option for ambushes. 

Also, common sense helps to avoid the traps.  If you see one guy, all by himself sitting on a teleporter... guess what.  He's either a scout or stupid.  Chances are, he's a scout.  If they are not logging in, they are likely jumping in through that teleporter to ambush you. 

If you see a scout, adjust accordinly.  If you've been scouted, the smart thing to do, is to assume a large attack force is coming to wtfbbqpwn you and take your loots.  Its your own fault if you walk into a booby trap. 

Logging in doesn't need to be nerfed.  If anything, they should add an in game mechanic for ambushes, just to help the suspension of disbelief factor and possible add some mechanic to counter this, but in no way should we start removing players options for tactics and strategy.  We should add more options, not take them away.  We want more options then the blob tactic, remember?  More is better. 

So quit your QQ and man up.  This is not a sad tactic, its a clever one.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

The problem with login traps is that they discourage (imo) balanced small scale pvp.  People will not continue to engage with even numbers if they suddenly become outnumbered the moment they fire their weapons.  To me they just promote blobbing, which I don’t see as a good thing.

13 (edited by Jon Farmer 2010-12-16 04:30:35)

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

When you log off your robot is sent to your default terminal/outpost, I like that. lol

Our it could just warp out a couple of AU when you log out and warp back in when you log in.

Login ambush is not a new tactic. Its an old lame tactic. It is a tactic that relies on out-of-game team play, Vent perhaps.

Adding stealth to allow ambush would be an intresting ingame feature.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

This is a really lame feature since it hampers small group PvP. Only way to fix it would be a log in timer of a couple of minutes. I don't see that as being a problem for people who has to switch from miner to warrior. It's a small penalty fitting such action, makes scouting even more important to prepare in time.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

"Long range molecular instability" from being teleported to a remote location on an island that lowers your effectiveness in combat (ewar strength, damage) for a short period of time after logging in on the field.  Reinforcements through logons would still be effective because you wouldnt be force into battle but could still have a show of force and wouldnt matter at all if you logged in inside an outpost/terminal.  Login traps would be severely weakened and people could get away or try to fight before their instability has worn off.

I would push for a progressively lessening effect until you're at full, but a flat penalty would be much easier to implement.

I am Perpetuum's Most Dangerous Agent and an equal opportunity troll.
-> You just lost The Game <-
"Perpetuum sounds like a something I would stick up my *** for enjoyement." -Kaito Kurusaki

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

good idea Neoxx,

I think it's the best way to do it.
timer before or after logging is just annoying when you want ot came back after a crash or for other reasons,....
game penality, makes people think twice, but doesn't cut of this "features"


also, radar balancing and stealth capability (ground coover,...) are others way to look at it, and I hope to see this modifications and new features implemented soon.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Making in-game crutches to allow for stupidity and being lazy doesnt strike me as the way to go.

Login ambushes are the only way to launch a "suprise attack" of sorts since the radar detects everything in a certain radius, regardless if there's 30 people hidden behind the hill. Making the radar LOS and affected with terrain would add a much needed element of suprise and planning to the game. Login ambushes would lose their importance quickly after that.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

This needs to be addressed asap.

[img]http://www.cryptostudios.com/PO/Sigs/BC.jpg[/img]

19 (edited by Haulingthatstuff 2010-12-16 15:34:44)

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

The problem is it minimizes risk, you can safely kill all day like this and never have to worry about losing your robot. Thats the problem. If fine with some kind of stealth/radar effectiveness, your still out there risking yourself. This tactic smells of griefing ;p


edit*I like the powering down idea to remove yourself from radar or something along those lines. Or being able to use terrain/create false radar images.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Haulingthatstuff wrote:

The problem is it minimizes risk, you can safely kill all day like this and never have to worry about losing your robot. Thats the problem. If fine with some kind of stealth/radar effectiveness, your still out there risking yourself. This tactic smells of griefing ;p


edit*I like the powering down idea to remove yourself from radar or something along those lines. Or being able to use terrain/create false radar images.

What tosh, a login trap should only work once. Then people know where you are, get some numbers and you have a trap yourself, butt *** the people logging in as they'll be uncoordinated initially.  Lots of tactics you can do to kill them, obviously you're going to lose the initial bot but you could turn it around into a spectacular victory if they are stupid enough to try it again at the same location

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Problem with that is how can you make an effective counter attack with a 1000m range, if you set up your ambush anywhere close enough, they just wont log in cause they know your there.

log out time is only 60 seconds, have to get there, target them and kill them before they are gone.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

There are ways of doing it, M2S Secret Service will roughly violate me if i say too much just have a think about it, try different things wink

23 (edited by Arga 2010-12-16 23:23:06)

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

The only people caught off guard by this tactic or those that don't know about. Simply by making players aware this tactic exists they can find counters and counter-counters, which is exactly what combat is all about. Login tactics also either require a spy or a lookout, so if you see that Arkhe hanging around the gate, expect there are troops in the area.

This is only an issue on Beta, and as I was recently schooled, beta is risky. This tactic is just another risk you need to counter.

If it has to be changed, add a non-agression timer after login. You can not target or be targeted for 20 seconds after logging in. This eliminates the surprise volley factor but not the tactical advantage of suddenly having addtional troops in an area.

Edit: Removed a grammer thing that irritated me

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Using A spy or A lookout isn’t the only way to do it.  My first week on beta a corp was running around with four between ICS Beta and the port.  Four of us grouped up and headed over for a little 4v4.  As soon as we engaged their four friends logged in to make it a 4v8, which didn’t go too well for us.  The results of the encounter were losing a light bot (who cares) and me being completely unwilling to fight this corporation on even terms ever again, which is how the blob wars begin.  This is not a good thing. 

I like the idea of a non-aggression timer, though I would like to see it last more like a minute.

Re: Login ambush attacking.....

Vaelen Gar wrote:

The results of the encounter were losing a light bot (who cares) and me being completely unwilling to fight this corporation on even terms ever again, which is how the blob wars begin.  This is not a good thing.

Exactly, those who now saying "adapt or die" after couples of month look back and think why there left only blob warfare and no small scale pvp...