Re: New devblog: Progress report
My suggestion was a way of BRIDGING the gap between new and vet players, I guess you missed that.
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My suggestion was a way of BRIDGING the gap between new and vet players, I guess you missed that.
Tund: if you mean what I think you mean then your suggestion would have only short-term positive effects. Yes, it would consume a lot of resources from the current elite, which would seemingly narrow the gap, but eventually newbies would have to spend the same amount of resources to get to the same level. And by that time we may have already rectified the issues that made that huge resource surplus possible in the first place, making the current newbies fall short of the honeypot.
so when you talk about production bonus if the person and the corp has the research, is that a production bonus only on the prototype production or mass production as well ?
Unless you are doing away with instant respawning ore fields, the ability of new players to create stockpiles will not be impacted. Anyone can sit on alpha 1s and farm to their hearts delight in perfect safety.
Buildings should be same way as modules, T1 versions should be reverse engineered and T2/T3 should have a prototype version and a normal version.
The way it is now, if you are lucky you know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy that has T3 building knowledge. If not, your fokked.
Jenny: originally the plan was to affect mass production only, but now that I think about it I don't see a reason why it shouldn't affect prototyping as well.
if it affects mass production, then you are forcing every manufacturing character in a corp to also have the research tree researched, I do not think that is a good idea
That's the idea though. You don't need prototypes that often as you're mass producing them. If we only have a bonus for prototyping then the only thing we have achieved is that we gave a bonus for researchers/prototypers who have the knowledge in the first place. If we wanted that then we could just simply reduce prototyping material multipliers globally.
then we could just simply reduce prototyping material multipliers globally.
+1
in general i find the idea of prototyping structures good. then this will greatly limit the spread of them to the ones that accually have the tech avalible. atm as soon as one set of buildings is given out it may spread to the server. just like bots do (scarab).
if we have prototypes then the distriution of that tech is to the ppl that accually have it researched (the way it should be).
same goes to bots.
still the problem with the prototyping costs. or maybe something has to be done here to get them down and not appy the standard x10 rule.
for all who cry that noobs cant compete in production: a noob is not ment to compete in the high level production with a veteran. thats simply how it should be.
on the other hand a noob that joins a gamma corp can produce even better then a vet on alpha. so i dont realy see any problems here. you simply are not a good produce with 2 weeks of skill time. and you should not be. there is stuff like ammo or t1 stuff that might be suitable for noob producers. its siply a missjudgement that a noob should be able to compete in t4 production. wrong game. this is for long term players who dedicate some time and effort to it.
If a new player can do most of what they would want to in this game within a few months then they are less likely to hang around.
AND i also agree with what Zotarg said above ^^
I'm gonna get flak for this, but every time you support an argument by saying "the game is dying so you should do it/we pay for it so you should do it/we are veterans and have endless resources so you should do it/x feature is broken so you should put this in instead"
*Mans his AA gun*
Really Zoom? Your just going to dumb things down to that?
Any one that really knows this game, knows it is in dire need of not just new content but that many Mechanics need balancing or with others complete removal & redesign.
We are painfully aware of A.C. resource limitations.
the game is dying so you should do it
um... this game is an MMO. Perpetuum is missing the first 'M'
Do you have a problem with people pointing out ways you can change that?
we pay for it so you should do it/we are veterans and have endless resources so you should do i
As paying customers we have the right & expectation to voice our approval & disapproval of what the DEVs do.
This is a subscription Game & people feel more like investors rather than just "players". So its no shock we are more Vocal on calling out BS, incompetence & other such things.
feature is broken so you should put this in instead"
If you no longer want your player base to point out what is broken & ways the problems might be fixed please let us know so we can stop posting.
one more note for prototyping:
the main reason if there should be a prototype variant or not should be if you want free tech distribution over the game. if you are fine that everybody can "copy" it without the tech at hand then you dont need the prototype.
that is currently avalibe to (if i havent missed anything):
- T1 items
- ammo and charges
- bots
- structures
i thinl the first two are totally fine.
for bots and structures i think the prototyping would be nice. but needs reballancing to cut not too heavy into production costs. but ballancing here should not be that hard if you stick to hungarian math.
when i remember when the scarab was introduced a few ppl had a real hard time to get the tech, just that everybody else copied it after the first few were out.
same goes most likely to the structures atm.
of cource i am aslo a benefactor of the current system. i neither have the tech for scarabs or structures. but i can copy it as long as i have at least one item or ct left.
thats good for me, do i think its the right thing? no!
Tund: if you mean what I think you mean then your suggestion would have only short-term positive effects. Yes, it would consume a lot of resources from the current elite, which would seemingly narrow the gap, but eventually newbies would have to spend the same amount of resources to get to the same level. And by that time we may have already rectified the issues that made that huge resource surplus possible in the first place, making the current newbies fall short of the honeypot.
Issue #1:
Instantly and infinitely respawning ore fields on islands, allowing perpetual mining & hoarding of resources with or without using a script/bot/macro.
Issue #2:
Player created fortresses which cannot be breached in any way shape or form (3 day reinforcement x3, 12 terminal cap on islands, being able to decon-recon terminals to reset timers, etc) which excerbate Issue #1.
HISTORICAL NOTE:
I think you might remember this Zoom, it's an excerpt of a wider discussion back in '11.
Log starting: 2212-09-22 16:06:43
<snip>
[16:11:14] <Syndic> I've been talking on and off with gargaj
[16:11:33] <Syndic> I got a bit of a conundrum and he told me you / calvin are the ones to talk to about it
[16:14:04] <Syndic> I've ran out of things to get my guys to do.. theres nobody to fight in PVP, only way to even try to get a fight would be to either get up at 6 AM server time before work, or to try and take over all outposts in-game and even that's not a certain method, nevermind it goes completely against everything we stand for
[16:15:21] <Syndic> the other alternatives are to mine or to farm mobs.. which we've been doing religiously for the last year, and there's no end-goal to it anymore, we finished the tech and there's nobody trying to grind us out of the game anymore so no reason to build up stockpiles even further
[16:16:08] <Syndic> and so Im sitting here listening to my corpies discuss GW2, Archeage, TOR, whatever while they're playing WOT
[16:16:15] <Syndic> I want to play Perp
[16:16:33] <Syndic> but I have nothing to give them as a reason or goal to play..
[16:17:00] <Syndic> well, besides mining or farming for the sake of mining and farming.
[16:17:10] <Syndic> not an enjoyable prospect at the best of times.
[16:17:24] <DEV Zoom> yeah, umm, "we know"?
</snip>
The points from two years ago still stands; mining & farming for the sake of mining & farming eventually bores out everyone. It's the greatest weapon available in-game for corp-vs-corp warfare, God knows it worked on me twice until I discovered the Hebrew ways.
In short players no longer have to fight or work for, since everything is readily available on a plate. As a consequence, "everything" loses its inherent value. I valued those 10M Epri I mined outside of Koykili during the beginning of the Domhalarn Civil War more then all the billions I've mined on Gamma.
The bot change is aight, it'll screw some new players replacing bots at higher costs or getting into the bot-selling business, but that was always a low profit margin market anyway. The only thing that's changed is the general population is catching up to where we were two years ago.
Homer: uh wow, you managed to misinterpret all of those points
the game is dying so you should do it
um... this game is an MMO. Perpetuum is missing the first 'M'
Do you have a problem with people pointing out ways you can change that?
This actually meant that we're not going to put in an imbalanced mechanic out of fear that the game is dying. If we caved for that then everyone would have a black gropho by now.
we pay for it so you should do it/we are veterans and have endless resources so you should do i
As paying customers we have the right & expectation to voice our approval & disapproval of what the DEVs do.
This is a subscription Game & people feel more like investors rather than just "players". So its no shock we are more Vocal on calling out BS, incompetence & other such things.
We are really thankful that all of you are still here, and yes you have the right for those, but this situation what we have now is a really imbalanced one. And I mean here that the majority of our current players are veterans with ample resources to go around. Naturally you will suggest features and mechanics that will fit to your situation and playstyle. But we have to keep in mind that hopefully you'll become the minority soon, and we have to balance the game to that setup.
feature is broken so you should put this in instead"
If you no longer want your player base to point out what is broken & ways the problems might be fixed please let us know so we can stop posting.
And here I meant that we should rather fix a broken mechanic instead of keeping it and putting a new one on top of it.
How much time does it take to design and patch a new robot, include tech builds?
At this point I'd like to see more bots in game in the next couple of months. It would be nice if some of this could be subcontracted out to some programmers so it doesn't interfere with current production. Maybe the players could donate money directly to that project. Like it would take $3000 to get three bots one of each coded and we put up a fundraiser for it. Lol it's an idea.
in general i find the idea of prototyping structures good. then this will greatly limit the spread of them to the ones that accually have the tech avalible. atm as soon as one set of buildings is given out it may spread to the server. just like bots do (scarab).
if we have prototypes then the distriution of that tech is to the ppl that accually have it researched (the way it should be).
same goes to bots.still the problem with the prototyping costs. or maybe something has to be done here to get them down and not appy the standard x10 rule.
for all who cry that noobs cant compete in production: a noob is not ment to compete in the high level production with a veteran. thats simply how it should be.
on the other hand a noob that joins a gamma corp can produce even better then a vet on alpha. so i dont realy see any problems here. you simply are not a good produce with 2 weeks of skill time. and you should not be. there is stuff like ammo or t1 stuff that might be suitable for noob producers. its siply a missjudgement that a noob should be able to compete in t4 production. wrong game. this is for long term players who dedicate some time and effort to it.
+1 There also needs to be a way for protoypers to lease a limited proto or CT so as to promote selling their research without giving away the full prototype.
@zoom
i just noticed that the nuimqol defense tree contains all types of armor repaires.
do i guess right that thelodica will contain all resistance platings and pelistal will contain all shields?
and one more thing:
the offensive tree starts with the weapon which leads to the first light bot.
would it not make more sense to start with the light bot. yea production wise it might be more handy with the weapon, but a weapon without a bot to fit it to might be a bit senseless. so logic wise, first bot then equip for it.
always depends what was there first, the egg or the chicken...
@zoom
i just noticed that the nuimqol defense tree contains all types of armor repaires.do i guess right that thelodica will contain all resistance platings and pelistal will contain all shields?
and one more thing:
the offensive tree starts with the weapon which leads to the first light bot.
would it not make more sense to start with the light bot. yea production wise it might be more handy with the weapon, but a weapon without a bot to fit it to might be a bit senseless. so logic wise, first bot then equip for it.
always depends what was there first, the egg or the chicken...
That depends. There's this real life example:
I think that repairers, armor hardeners and shields distribution looks fine, because it's their raical advantage - they have a bonuses for that. Whats for guns before lights - well you still have Arkhes, don't you?
Yeah Line guessed it, I had the Arkhe in mind when putting the weapon first.
And yes, shields+hardeners are in Pelistal and resistance armors in Thelodica.
Yeah why aren't the bots in their own linear progression?
Yeah why aren't the bots in their own linear progression?
Too easy.
and resistance armors in Thelodica.
I have to correct myself on this one, resistance armors are distributed among factions by type, just like ERP. We noticed the Thelodica have less defense specific tech than the other factions, so we're now thinking about reassigning some common stuff to them. Maybe armor plates?
Also, remote armor repair tech is actually common tech, not Nuimqol.
Yeah why aren't the bots in their own linear progression?
Yes, I would do that too. If someone wants to specialize in bot building, let him do so. You can balance it with the amount of points it takes to unlock and so on.
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