Topic: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

So there is a misinformation circulating around that DWU walls are simply raised and lowered by terraformed terrain, or that walls are slowly destroyed by terraforming.

The truth is that terraforming ignores the tiles with walls, and terraforms around them, without damaging them.

However, due to how tiles are connected to each other, tiles raised next to the wall will pull up the tile under the wall too, because their edge is common. (Pulling one edge of a tile up will make it sloped, and incidentally its center will also be higher, which will push up the wall on it too. This is pretty much how the "buildings pulling down terraformed walls" effect worked too.)

Now the question to discuss:

Is it okay like this? Or should terraforming damage walls? Or should walls simply not allow terraforming, and you should be required to destroy them beforehand (by other means)? Please also consider that this could be an alternative for passive terraforming defense, instead of the "standing there to deny it" method.

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

DEV Zoom wrote:

Or should walls simply not allow terraforming, and you should be required to destroy them beforehand (by other means)?

I would go for this ^, walls as an added terraforming protection.

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Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

So if a player standing in an area being terraformed gets stuck then what ?

do we contact the devs to get un~stuck

or are you going to allow players to self destruct ?

or if close to a terminal are you going to allow players to drop teleports closer than the current 1000 meters to get out of the stuck location

this raises a lot of issues and problems if players can be in the area that is being terraformed.

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Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

Tux: I didn't say that mechanic would change, that's another topic. I meat that using walls to defend against terraforming would maybe make the standing there method less prevalent.

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

why not increase the non-TF range of the DWU by 1 pixel in all directions? That way the tile they are standing on cannot visually be raised.

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Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

anni defenetly has a point here.
still walls to prevent terraforming sounds not bad. only thing that comes to my mind is that ppl will use it to build castels that can not be entered with terraforming.

there has to be a good benefit for the defenders, but making it too big may cause some serious issues.
terraform a wall. place wall segemnts behind it. if one tile around can not be terraformed then you will not be able to destroy that wall segments from outside. even if you implement terraforming slope limitations it still will be hard.

i still prefer the terraforming inhibitor aura buildings that were annouced some time ago. these will slow attackers to tear down your terraforming and also would slow just to build a a ramp. and go over it. same goes for just terraforming some cover to block enemy bot and turret fire. of cource the aura needs to have a real big radius or it will suck deeply.

the good old question that you always need to keep in mind:
if you give players a toy, they will not use it like a tool, in the way it is ment to use. they will abuse it to the max. they will always drive it to the max. and with that you need to add savety limitations so that this will be prevented (see walls to the sky. normal ground would just collapse if build that high and thin).

would DWU block terraforming help? yes. will it give ppl even more ways to exploit? yes!

one other thing that i want to bring to discussion here: with the current terraforming options you might not be able to rebuild your defensive terraforming after a attack to its former glory without deconstructing your buildings. you can mess up a nice plan so that it can only be rebuild with beacons. if oyu still have buildings around then you have a problem because manual terraforming will not bring back the nice original state. atm you can only deconstruct if its worth for you.
i think here is also a solution nessessary. one solution that i came up is a MPC building taht can terraform from a selected plan. in a large radius. but it will do that very slowly and only on ground were no players are around.
of cource this would also need that terraforming would acualy follow the terraforming plans to the end and not stop before completion as it does often atm.

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

Damage while terraforming under it

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

Zoom, what about modular walls? Do you plan to introduce something like it?

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

We already have a tools to deal with walls - a bombs.

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

Industrial Sector wrote:

We already have a tools to deal with walls - a bombs.

well, i think it doesnt help when you place the DWUs ontop of a 200m high vertical dirtwall, where the bomb never reaches it....

oh wait... does bomb AoE ignore Z-elevation too?

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11

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

I can think of many ways that will make defense a cake walk if you make it so walls block TF, I don’t think this is a good idea but .. we all will benefit from it as defenders

Example . I make a 1K high 4 tiles thick wall and line the inside of it with DWU’s there is no way for an attacker to get past that wall … minus sending an army with manual TF to tear down the wall to get within LOS of the wall unit to drop a bomb. Moving 4KM(3) of dirt manually would be a nightmare … if it is implemented this way  I would say good luck to any attacker that has less than 60 people trying to assault a gamma. … or even get on one for that matter.

Currently people can Block TF with structures. I think that is good enough.

From attacking stand point its just making gamma more difficult to have any effect on.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

one thing should be added very soon to the game... a slope limit.

i dunno if it would kill the server... but "landslides" should be something doable with a hightmap wink

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Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

The terraforming should damage the walls.  Why?  Because Defensively speaking, all a defender would have to do is raise their platforms for there base to the ceiling, then place walls behind the one tile thick parapet.  If the walls won't allow you to terraform into a base to attack it you will never be able to get inside only by were the defender wants you to come in.  The best you could do is terraform a path up and drop a bomb and hope like hell the defender doesn't bring one waspish to blow up the bomb.  I see too many ways to exploit this on the defenders side, and lets be honest Gamma is already heavily favoring the defender.

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Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

ville:

me wrote:

oh wait... does bomb AoE ignore Z-elevation too?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

15 (edited by Obi Wan Kenobi 2012-09-20 00:23:26)

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

Bring in Artillery! then we have a good counter to walls that doesnt involve having to run up to them with bombs

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16 (edited by Ville 2012-09-20 00:30:50)

Re: Terraforming vs. Defensive Wall Units

Annihilator:

Annihilator wrote:

QQ Devs I want more PVE stuff.

I no longer read your posts.  I just summed up your last 35 forum posts.

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