1 (edited by Vehacan 2012-07-31 13:52:00)

Topic: New feature request PVE/PVP

Some ideas to make combat and bots more interesting:

General
- change base view distance for all bots to 800m (white circle on radar)


Weaponry
- artillery (circle shaped area attack)
- firethrowers (cone shaped area attack - close range)
- gel or glue thrown on the ground to reduce speed temporarily (cone shaped area attack)
- shotgun lasers / shotgun magnetic weapon (cone shaped area attack - close range)


Modules
- replace the LWF module with an accumulator and CPU based speed module
- introduce smoke grenades
- new mantlet or plate module to use as cover by bots (can be moved or carried with them)
- directional scanner for bots

Specialized bots:

scout bot
- set the base view distance at 1000m
- scanner bonuses

salvage bot
- introduce new salvage module (like harvesting different color?)
- existing industrial bot with bonus on salvaging

miner bot
- introduce new module to mine liquids (pipe-like?)

siege bot
- new bot that drills through walls and terraforming

Tier 1 bots
- higher base speed - one/two slots less than tier 2

Tier 2 bots
- lower base speed - one/two slots more than tier 1

P.S. Not sure if these have been introduced elsewhere, but it's nice to share them. smile

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

Laser shotgun? You know how lasers work right? Making a shotgun out of them is LoL big_smile

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

Well the more fun the better. big_smile

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

You know you can change the size of the white circle right?

What do you mean by "base view"?  Currently the distance at which you see bots depends on the ratio of your signal detection to their signal masking.

So are you suggesting that detector modules should be removed?

+1
-Confucius

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

I like the creativity and I give you props for that.  But whats really killing pvp atm, is NOONE IS DOING IT.

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6 (edited by Vehacan 2012-07-31 14:51:27)

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

Kaldenines wrote:

You know you can change the size of the white circle right?

Yes I know.

Kaldenines wrote:

What do you mean by "base view"?  Currently the distance at which you see bots depends on the ratio of your signal detection to their signal masking.

So are you suggesting that detector modules should be removed?

On the contrary, all bots have the same base distance view to see other bots. To give scout bots a unique and more specialized trait they see the furthest that is 1000m base view while all other bots have less. I even recommend mechs to have even lower distance views 600-700m or so to give the smaller bots an edge and get generally more useful. So no signal detector or masking modules have been used yet. That is:

- scout bots 1000m
- all other bots 900-800m
- mech / heavy mech bots 700-600m

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

So what you are saying is that the view distance should be constant and based only on the bot doing the detecting, not on the bot being detected?

Because at the moment it works like this:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Help:Si … nd_masking

Imo detector modules are far too powerful as they are.  It's possible to scout a whole island in a short period of time with a single light detector.  It's also another (practically) compulsory module for any gang to have as without it you are at a huge disadvantage.

+1
-Confucius

8 (edited by Arjha Shanoo 2012-07-31 17:19:49)

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

In general, like you may have noticed most ideas were already there in one way or other. I advice you to use the related topics to explain it further and for your ideas to be found more easily.

  • lwf discussion is a perpetuum mobile *yawn*- if you want to discuss your idea further please use one of the existing topics (recent one) for it and explain it in detail

  • aoe attacks/weapons have been asked for a long time now, but somehow I loled at the glue part imagining a puddle of slime being thrown *shudder*; an aoe laser is a completely nogo for me if u think of a simultanious attack on a broader area - laser is highly bundled light, being spread it may only blind you

  • what do you mean with the new mantlet? a new outfit for your bot or to be able to switch on field the light frame versus a plated one?

  • scout bot: is a light bot (not light ewar) with a detection module not enough or do you want to take their main current purpose?

  • salvage bot already asked for recently here and here

  • module for liquids? no, we have only three liquids and already separate ammos for them, to introduce a completely new module just for some new optics is an overkill

  • base speed for bots is differs already for class; for mkII - they are normally lighter and thus a bit faster, but can equip more, have more hp/cpu/reactor/cargo and have at least one bot bonus more than mkI, do you want to exchange one of the attributes mentionend before for a lighter frame (=faster)?

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

i agree that the current detection/masking mechanics are  *insert less harsh word for "fail" *
they seemed to be good when they got implemented, but after a few weeks it was already obvious that it doesn't work.

before implementation, visual range was 1km for everything. implementation of options to see someone at higher ranges was a nice idea, but then overbalancing the viewing ranges and "hiding" parameters just made it worse then before.



about the shotgun laser...
would it really matter? i mean ingame the only real difference between lasers and projectile weapons, is the GFX.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

10 (edited by Vehacan 2012-08-01 06:57:00)

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

Kaldenines wrote:

So what you are saying is that the view distance should be constant and based only on the bot doing the detecting, not on the bot being detected?

Because at the moment it works like this:
http://www.perpetuum-online.com/Help:Si … nd_masking

Imo detector modules are far too powerful as they are.  It's possible to scout a whole island in a short period of time with a single light detector.  It's also another (practically) compulsory module for any gang to have as without it you are at a huge disadvantage.

What I mean is that all bots get a different visibility range from the start before any detecting or masking module is used. And if you do give them a detecting or masking module it is less effective for some bots then before.

You refer to the explanation of the signal detector feature, the formula uses a 1000m range and is fixed for every bot. This  range should be variable for different sized bots at the start before rF value. To allow for specialization and a proper scout bot.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

In general, like you may have noticed most ideas were already there in one way or other. I advice you to use the related topics to explain it further and for your ideas to be found more easily.

lwf discussion is a perpetuum mobile *yawn*- if you want to discuss your idea further please use one of the existing topics (recent one) for it and explain it in detail

Sure.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

aoe attacks/weapons have been asked for a long time now, but somehow I loled at the glue part imagining a puddle of slime being thrown *shudder*; an aoe laser is a completely nogo for me if u think of a simultanious attack on a broader area - laser is highly bundled light, being spread it may only blind you

Aoe weaponry are really needed. The shotgun laser is not about if it can be done in this world's physics, but if it would be useful on Nia so every faction would have an aoe weapon. I agree the name for the weapon is not so good. smile

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

what do you mean with the new mantlet? a new outfit for your bot or to be able to switch on field the light frame versus a plated one?

A real mantlet module (like a shield on wheels) or just a deflection plate that can be put in front of the robot (not attached) to deflect attacks.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

scout bot: is a light bot (not light ewar) with a detection module not enough or do you want to take their main current purpose?

At the moment there is no specialized robot to be used as a scout bot. I am looking at scanner bonuses and base visibility relatively better to all other bots when no modules are added.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

salvage bot already asked for recently here and here

Ok I think that would be a good thing.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

module for liquids? no, we have only three liquids and already separate ammos for them, to introduce a completely new module just for some new optics is an overkill

Overkill indeed, this is just for looks and fun.

Arjha Shanoo wrote:

base speed for bots is differs already for class; for mkII - they are normally lighter and thus a bit faster, but can equip more, have more hp/cpu/reactor/cargo and have at least one bot bonus more than mkI, do you want to exchange one of the attributes mentionend before for a lighter frame (=faster)?

What I mean is take the mk2 bot (=tier 2) and make a lighter variant of it (=tier 1) which has 1 or 2 less slots and has a higher base speed. This way both bots will always be used and one is not better than the other but has a different role / function. The trade off here is slots (=tier 2) versus speed (=tier 1).

Annihilator wrote:

i agree that the current detection/masking mechanics are  *insert less harsh word for "fail" *
they seemed to be good when they got implemented, but after a few weeks it was already obvious that it doesn't work.

before implementation, visual range was 1km for everything. implementation of options to see someone at higher ranges was a nice idea, but then overbalancing the viewing ranges and "hiding" parameters just made it worse then before.

about the shotgun laser...
would it really matter? i mean ingame the only real difference between lasers and projectile weapons, is the GFX.

The shotgun laser would matter, first as an faction aoe weapon and second for looks and fun. Both are an important factor in my opinion.

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

you know, AoE weapons are in the works since... god i have forgotten when.... i can dig up the picture of a Symbiont with two of them equipped !

and it doesnt make sense to implement a "lighter bot" with less module slots, due to the fact, that you can simply leavy slots empty to gain speed (like noone fitting the missile slots on blue or yellow bots, or the weapon slots on EWAR mechs/bots)

due to the speed-formulas hungarian math, the "faster" bot needs a higher base mass = heavier wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

12 (edited by Vehacan 2012-08-01 07:01:31)

Re: New feature request PVE/PVP

Annihilator wrote:

you know, AoE weapons are in the works since... god i have forgotten when.... i can dig up the picture of a Symbiont with two of them equipped !

and it doesnt make sense to implement a "lighter bot" with less module slots, due to the fact, that you can simply leavy slots empty to gain speed (like noone fitting the missile slots on blue or yellow bots, or the weapon slots on EWAR mechs/bots)

due to the speed-formulas hungarian math, the "faster" bot needs a higher base mass = heavier wink

Yes true, but it can be balanced. The trade off should be so that you get more speed on the light bots (= tier 1) than leaving slots on the heavier bots empty (= tier 2). (This would also partially tackle the lwf problem.)

This would be more logical for you have created 1 bot (=tier 2) that has extra equipment and mass to give more slots. The base speed should be slower than the one without those slot options.