1 Topic by Lupus Aurelius (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2012-05-15 18:20:21)

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Topic: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Preface: this has been referred to in several other posts over the past year.

Currently, we have the following:

Tyrannos, 4 mid slots assigned to missiles, 2 utility slots
Artemis, 4 mid slots assigned to lasers, 1 missile slot
Kain, 4 mid slots assigned to magnetic weapons, 2 missle slots

The issue:  Tyrannos can fit all it primary weapons and also mount 2 utility items, such as 2 neuts, or a neut and drain, or 2 firearms for that matter.  In order for the Artemis or Kain to mount a utility item, they have to drop a primary weapon system to do so, reducing their dps capablity.  The tyrannos, however, does not have to drop dps capablity in order to fit those utility items.

Proposed solution:  Make the missle slots on the Artemis and Kain capable of fitting utility items as well as missles.  This will give the Artemis and Kain comparable versitility in fitting that the tyrannos has, ignoring the fact that the Artemis would end up with only 1 missile/utility slot vs the Kain's 2, and the tyrannos' 2 utility/turret slots.

And yes, there will be a whole lot of arguement that you can't fit the tyrannos or the mk2 version easily, but the same issue would exist for the other 2, would it not?  This is a question not or similar capablities, but of similar versitilty in fitting, and the same choices would exist for the Kain and Artemis as far as fitting as would the Tyrannos.

Moderator, please limit discussion to facts and data please.

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Both the kain and Arti have turret bonuses, which would make the firearm in the 5th slot alot more powerful then it is on the Tyr; and 6th for the kain way OP.

Arti/Kain 1 vs 2 slots also seems balanced, because lasers are lower mass than mag weapons, they could fit (2) missles and endup being faster (or about the same?) than a kain with (2) missles.

Unless they come up with a new slot type, Utility minus firearms, then current setup seems like the best balance.

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Arga wrote:

Both the kain and Arti have turret bonuses, which would make the firearm in the 5th slot alot more powerful then it is on the Tyr; and 6th for the kain way OP.

Arti/Kain 1 vs 2 slots also seems balanced, because lasers are lower mass than mag weapons, they could fit (2) missles and endup being faster (or about the same?) than a kain with (2) missles.

Unless they come up with a new slot type, Utility minus firearms, then current setup seems like the best balance.


Incorrect.
- arty gets a laser bonus, not a turret bonus
- kain gets a magnetic bonus, not a turret bonus
- post recommends making the missile slots on arty and kain also utility slots, not also turret slots, in other words, no firearms in those slots ( firearms are turret slots, not utility )

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!

4 Reply by Arga (edited by Arga 2012-05-15 19:14:15)

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

I was talking about Extensions, not bot bonus, sorry.

The issue:  Tyrannos can fit all it primary weapons and also mount 2 utility items, such as 2 neuts, or a neut and drain, or 2 firearms for that matter.

Then the Tyr also can't fit firearms if they are utility slots and not turret slots.

This being the case, then both the Kain and Arti can incease DPS with missles (at the cost of speed, but same with Tyr adding utilty mods), while the Try can only add utility.

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Main thing I see is the Tyranos has lower base DPS but can increase it utilizing its extra slots (going extremely slow. The additional DPS/utility added requires LOS clashing with the advantages of its launchers.

Kain/Artemis have much higher DPS but if they want Utility they lose more DPS when fitting a launcher or two instead of a gun because the way bonus in this game work (broken).

Weapons should not be so dependent on bonus to do viable damage (When you ballance around 50% damage bonus this is what happens).

Fix the broken robot bonuses, fix the problem without adjust any slots.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Sundial wrote:

Fix the broken robot bonuses, fix the problem without adjust any slots.

What's broken about the bonuses?

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

overall slot count for all three mechs is the same... everything balanced

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Arga wrote:
Sundial wrote:

Fix the broken robot bonuses, fix the problem without adjust any slots.

What's broken about the bonuses?

Its pointless equipping a weapon without a bonus besides AC/MG. In all cases, the disadvantage is not worth the extra DPS because without the 50% bonus the weapons are balanced to be very weak. So taking advantage of your secondary weapon systems for blue and orange is sub optimal even if you ignore the speed penalty considering what else you could do with the fitting.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

9 Reply by Lupus Aurelius (edited by Lupus Aurelius 2012-05-15 23:19:53)

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Arga wrote:

I was talking about Extensions, not bot bonus, sorry.

The issue:  Tyrannos can fit all it primary weapons and also mount 2 utility items, such as 2 neuts, or a neut and drain, or 2 firearms for that matter.

Then the Tyr also can't fit firearms if they are utility slots and not turret slots.

This being the case, then both the Kain and Arti can incease DPS with missles (at the cost of speed, but same with Tyr adding utilty mods), while the Try can only add utility.

It is not about increasing dps.  Atm, the tyrannos can have 4 missle launches and 2 utility items ( also, Arga, the utility slots on a tyrannos are also turret slots)  For a Kain or Artemis to fit utility items, they have to drop dps, by removing a turret.  They cannot fit anything but missiles in those 2 slots.

This gives alot of fitting versatility to the tyrannos, without having to make the choice to drop a weapon system in order to fit a utility item, whereas the Kain and Artemis do have to make such a choice.  The Tyrannos can fit all 4 of it's primary weapons, and 2 utility items or turrets (firearms ), the Kain an Artemis can only fit missile launchers in their 2 extra slots.

As far as assumptions about dps capablities of the mechs and this was intended to "balance" them, until a DEV chimes in, that is pure speculation.  Also, most of the replys are from pelistal pilots, so I have to assume some bias there.  And don't forget, the tyrannos, especially the Mk2, can have a stupidly high tank with shields.  I would state that that is the "balance" aspect here to the tyrannos' dps, not the utility slot capablities.

In the gods we trust, all others bring data!
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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

hmm,
you should stop using slot names that are not ingame...

no we dont need to touch the module layout on any of those mechs.

im totally against it. those are not omni mechs... we need more different mechs per faction, and thats it.

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11 Reply by Alexadar (edited by Alexadar 2012-05-16 10:27:17)

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

In a defence of tyranoss, 4 missile launchers < 3 thelodica lazors or 2 nuimquol wepons, thats why thelodica and nuimquol sacrifycing weapon slots

I like Lupus idea - especially side which should give more options to select a slots for modules. But we should not forget about upcoming hybrid expansion. I suppose that this problem, what Lupus described, will be solved in this expansion.

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

Been suggested many times and I have +1 every time.

13 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2012-05-23 02:05:03)

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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

I have changed my opinion after much thought about the fitting system in general.

It would be nice if we could  have more slots/utility slots and options when fitting. You shouldn't have to be a green pilot to have utility slots you can actually use without making huge sacrifices.

At the same time when you buff other bots, balance of the Tyranos needs to be looked at. Of course when Kains/Artemis take advantage of their utility slots they will be able to fit less other stuff and will move slower.

Don't make everything the same, give us more options when fitting.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: Mech mid slots re:utility slots

I agree for more versatility/choices in the fitting.

As long as the robots keep their current reactor/CPU, it will be very difficult to fit everything.

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