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Topic: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

For example before update I could buy one mech for 1.500.000 nic and spend for it about 4 hours (the best time for pass max lvl 3 battle mission is about 24-30 minutes with a lightfame, from 1 mission I earn 250k nic and loot for 150k). But now to got a mech I must waste 12.5 hours. Of course you have added new missions for alpha islands, but reward is also low.
I play in this game because I don’t want hard play and waste time this important for me because I have a job. And now you are trying compel me play more…

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

yes bots were cheaper. but in the end the bot was not the most expensive stuff... try to fit your kain with usefull equipment and you will see that these 1,4m were simply not that big of a issue.

now the bot itself is way more expensive. for that the equipment now is cheaper.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Oh yes, before path "CRC40 Medium armor repair" was 0.9kk and now it is 4.2kk this is only the one T4 equipment that I use any another always T1.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Now can u imagine go to pvp in mesmer fleet?

Ofc not tongue

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Anihilator wrote:

Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Because is the long run the whole game gets better.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Anihilator wrote:

Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Because is the long run the whole game gets better.

Twaddle! Give me examples.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Really?  They introduced a couple new commodities, wait a week or two prices will slowly come down.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Rabus0 wrote:

Now can u imagine go to pvp in mesmer fleet?

Ofc not tongue

Been doing this the past week.  Mk2s ofcourse.  Well those who can pilot them.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Anihilator wrote:

Twaddle! Give me examples.

If farming is harder, money is harder to make and bots and high tier mods are more expensive then consequences of loss are higher. imo this makes the game more exciting, gives an edge to PvP. Shooting games with non-consequential loss (or very little consequences) are repetative, require no brain-power and are boring as a result. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for such games, some enjoy them but I don't and I'm pretty sure the Perp DEVs are not trying to create one.

This is all a personal opinion, of course, but this is what I was thinking when I said that in the long run the whole game will improve.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Ludlow Bursar wrote:
Anihilator wrote:

Twaddle! Give me examples.

If farming is harder, money is harder to make and bots and high tier mods are more expensive then consequences of loss are higher. imo this makes the game more exciting, gives an edge to PvP. Shooting games with non-consequential loss (or very little consequences) are repetative, require no brain-power and are boring as a result. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for such games, some enjoy them but I don't and I'm pretty sure the Perp DEVs are not trying to create one.

This is all a personal opinion, of course, but this is what I was thinking when I said that in the long run the whole game will improve.

This game has had one important thing for me – it is no matter how many hours you play per day 1-2 or 168. And now this was ended. There is appear a border between peoples and separate them for two camps “Who can’t play many hours” and “Who can”. Another words is “Poor” and “Rich”.
There will appear humans who trade nick for real money, bot programs for earn nic and many another ugly things like in other games.

11 Reply by Anihilator (edited by Anihilator 2012-06-04 15:31:28)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

To create more expensive pvp DEV can enter next class of bot “Walkers” and heavy weapons. It will in harmony with this world, but cut my pocket it is roughly.

12 Reply by Sundial (edited by Sundial 2012-06-04 16:32:47)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Mechs were so cheap before they were a "throw away" bot that people would just undock wave after wave of T1 fits with to suicide. The cost of bots before was nothing short of BROKEN. Just because you do not like to shell out more NIC for a high end bot does not mean they were balanced before.

The prices have not finalized from the industry changes. Noralgis incubaters down 1/3 in price, I suspect noralgis will go down in price = all things needing briochit prices will go down after fluctuation stabilizes.

If you want a cheaper robot use a light or assault. Mechs / Heavies are serious business.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

13 Reply by Anihilator (edited by Anihilator 2012-06-04 17:10:49)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Sundial wrote:

Mechs were so cheap before they were a "throw away" bot that people would just undock wave after wave of T1 fits with to suicide. The cost of bots before was nothing short of BROKEN. Just because you do not like to shell out more NIC for a high end bot does not mean they were balanced before.

The prices have not finalized from the industry changes. Noralgis incubaters down 1/3 in price, I suspect noralgis will go down in price = all things needing briochit prices will go down after fluctuation stabilizes.

If you want a cheaper robot use a light or assault. Mechs / Heavies are serious business.


Let me know your hour per day game rate. Don't worry I already calculate for you (just curiosity) and it is about 4 hour per EVERY day without vacations. Like a second job, you know...

14 Reply by Crepitus (edited by Crepitus 2012-06-04 17:03:20)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Zortarg Calltar wrote:

yes bots were cheaper. but in the end the bot was not the most expensive stuff... try to fit your kain with usefull equipment and you will see that these 1,4m were simply not that big of a issue.

now the bot itself is way more expensive. for that the equipment now is cheaper.

^^ Wrong.  What they said and what they did are 2 different things.  This is the patch that was supposed to foster pvp.  They increased travel time 3x and the price to make everything 5-10x.

EDIT: Added "make" to the line above because i'm referring to the mineral cost not NIC.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Anihilator wrote:
Sundial wrote:

Mechs were so cheap before they were a "throw away" bot that people would just undock wave after wave of T1 fits with to suicide. The cost of bots before was nothing short of BROKEN. Just because you do not like to shell out more NIC for a high end bot does not mean they were balanced before.

The prices have not finalized from the industry changes. Noralgis incubaters down 1/3 in price, I suspect noralgis will go down in price = all things needing briochit prices will go down after fluctuation stabilizes.

If you want a cheaper robot use a light or assault. Mechs / Heavies are serious business.


Let me know your hour per day game rate. Don't worry I already calculate for you (just curiosity) and it is about 4 hour per EVERY day without vacations. Like a second job, you know...

Yes, I play quite a bit of Perpetuum.

If all bot prices are meaningless besides heavy mechs there is no reason to use anything as a cheap bot besides mechs.

The new prices are much more incremental which give lights/assaults the budget bot role.

The majority of new costs for mechs is in the briochit like I said... Wait a few weeks and see what happens to prices.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

It's a player run market, the current bot prices are inflated.

Yes, in one sense the dev's created this temporary market balloon by introducing changes to resource gathering and production, but its the players taking advantage of it by charging more for bots because of the level of uncertainty.

The cost of bots will stabilize, and it will be higher then before the patch, but the only way it will stay at the current level is if players keep buying them.


tl-dr; Uncertainty is creating a fleecing opportunity, don't buy the bots at this price, and sellers will have to lower them.

17 Reply by Lucius Marcellus (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-06-04 21:33:27)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

I can only speak for myself, but my bot margins are lower now than before the patch (yes there's the whole discussion of what the price of 'stocked' goods should be, but leave that for another thread as that's really just  matter of transition). So what creates high prices is not uncertainty, but rather high raw materials prices. Almost all except noralgis I'd say will fall for sure. However, for the t4 and high end bots, noralgis is pretty much the only thing that matters.Will noralgis fall? That's a hard question. Demand will increase at least 10x compared to pre-patch and yields have been reduced. Perhaps massive plantations on gamma can counteract that, but saying that they'll for sure fall is nothing but wild, wild speculation at this point.

Just to illustrate my point on this, if ALL raw materials fall in price by 30% compared to pre-patch level while noralgis keeps constant, then the prices of the following bots will change as follows:

Riveler: -6%
Mesmer: -11%
Vagabond: -17%
Kain: -15%

So yes, some price drops may be on the horizon if base ores fall (as they probably will to some extent at least), but don't expect too large drops unless noralgis starts going cheap!

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Just to change stances around a little: Why shouldn't bot prices be higher?

How would you characterize the cost of bots compared to their earning potential?

The same with T4.

There's no T5 on the horizon, so it's clear that the devs are going to want to make T4 a more difficult decision to use. And the same goes for there being very little gap between lights/assaults and Mechs.

Lights/assaults (MK I) won't use brio or epi, so there will be a very large gap now in price between these robots.

It's entirely possible that only corps with access to their own norgalis fields will be able to afford to drive mechs for PVP; the ones that don't have to BUY materials.

19 Reply by Lucius Marcellus (edited by Lucius Marcellus 2012-06-04 23:50:46)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Yup, I'm totally fine with that Arga (which is why I've also started offering T2/T3 gear in my shop). And fundamentally I do agree with you (I will probably get flamed for this), I do think high end bots and modules should be much more expensive than they were pre-patch. Before the gamma release every 2 week old player seemed to roll around in a t4 fit mech, at least for PvE! This way there's more to work towards and people will think twice before taking their t4 heavy combat mkII mech out for a PvP game.

I'm not against the change of balance. I'm against people saying that current prices will for sure fall and there's no reason for prices to be so high, because there is! Just do the math. Then you can speculate on future prices but as I mentioned that's really just guess-working and could easily turn out the other way around. In my shop I can assure you that my margins are the same or lower now as compared pre-patch given the current market prices for raw materials (blah blah blah current stocks, but again just transition).

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Then you can speculate on future prices but as I mentioned that's really just guess-working and could easily turn out the other way around.

That's of course all I can do, is speculate. This is mostly because it is a player run market. And it's all together possible that there simply are NO buyers at the current pricing, even if it is 100% mathmatically accurate at current market pricing.

If that would be the case, then production would fall off, resources would be less in demand, and raw material prices would drop; until the player base could again afford bots and modules.

Which is all I'm saying, that current prices could be inflation due to uncertainty.

21 Reply by Ludlow Bursar (edited by Ludlow Bursar 2012-06-05 00:20:11)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Lucius Marcellus wrote:

Before the gamma release every 2 week old player seemed to roll around in a t4 fit mech, at least for PvE! This way there's more to work towards ...

This is also another thing I like about high prices for mechs/heavies and T4 mods - the hook. Something to aim for that is long term that hooks people into the game. It is no secret that new player retention has been low. The more time you can get a player to invest in the game the more likely they are to stay.

My hunch is that making higher tier mods and mechs/heavies less accessible and more 'elite' will actually increase player retention. Good for the game in the long term.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Ludlow Bursar wrote:

This is also another thing I like about high prices for mechs/heavys and T4 mods - the hook. Something to aim for that is long term that hooks people into the game. It is no secret that new player retention has been low. The more time you can get a player to invest in the game the more likely they are to stay.

My hunch is that making higher tier mods and mechs/heavies less accessible and more 'elite' will actually increase player retention. Good for the game in the long term.

There is truth in this,

but while we (vet player) always tried to tell the new player, that the character progression ingame is not "the next higher mech", the lack of alternatives for each robot class makes it really hard to keep player ingame, if they can only choose between one drive for their faction choice.

In PvE you nearly always need either the next higher mech then the NPCs your going to face, or the superiour equip/extensions. (my topic: why is every npcs fight a boss fight)

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

I think it means my opponents will field cheaper bots...

Does this mean more E Z kills?

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

I hate to say this but we need more independant producers in the game.  We need more corperations like then PIE.  That focus just on the market.  These corps need to be in place.

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Re: Why you cut my pocket almost 7 times?

Yes but independant producers need customers, which are only available with a better player population. The old problem again. I don't know why Arga and Lucius Marcellus joined CIR/M2S ... but i bet it had something to do that they couldn't go on with "their" playstyle (only an assumption though)....
Increased prices for robots and modules means less PvP.
Making the ordinary grind for wealth harder and more time consuming = less PvP.
Therefor PvP becomes less attractive - and the PvE part of the game (except research) isn't what keeps players ingame for a long time i think.