Topic: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Is it intended that mined-out fields still show on directional?

I found an "X" on D-scan for a mined-out Silgium field: scores of black or greenish-black stubs.  Tried mining some just to be sure.  All "no minerals".  Area scan showed 0.09% for the field-- in the old system, this percent might have allowed a few minable blocks.  However...

If there were 2 or 3 tiny stubs amongs the hundreds, there was no way to distinguish them-- also my idea of "spend some time having fun in an online game" does not include sifting through dozens and dozens of mined out blocks for the one that may still have 5% left-- especially if maybe the original mining group missed it under a plant or something.

I understand the original intent, but I am hoping that this is a bug and that, at the moment, the D-scan and area percents are too sensitive.

It is counterproductive and non-engaging to spend a long time first on D-Scan, then in sifting through almost-exhausted tiles.  To put it simply: I used to like occasional mining, singly or in a group.  If the system is functioning as intended, I would be tempted never to mine except in big, previously-found fields, and leave it to some other poor unfortunates to find the leavings around the fringes-- if they even exist.  If that is the intent, then it is successful, but I worry about its impact on the game.

Is the intent that we just keep looking fiurther and further away and end up fragmenting all the fields, until we take the region below the magical minimum to re-stock the fields?

Or is the system bugged?

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

your complaint is missing an important information:

geoscanner accuracy used for the scans.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

3 (edited by Nemo 2012-06-03 20:48:58)

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

I think around 97%, but I'll check.

Regardless, I think that if there is "inaccuracy", it's one thing to be high or low on an actual amount there.  It's another to read "nothing there" as something there".

In the old system, you got a few blocks that lasted longer or shorter than expected.  If a few percent means that you can totally waste your time, would have been good to know in advance that one should push one's accuracy up past 100%.

97% accurate sounds pretty decent unless you are doing research that requires decimal places. wink

BTW, if it sounds like a "complaint", then sorry for the miscommunicatrion-- I thought that it might be a bug.

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

lower accuracy will cause NIOSE

noise can cause blocks shown where nothing is, and nothing shown where a tiny amount is left.

thats why you got those green blocks -> get your accuracy up to 100% (easy to archieve with an argano for example) and you will get a clean scan of the last remaining tile.

i see nothing wrong in that system. since the blocks are only a grafical interpretation of the content and there is no other reasonable way to have "accuracy" affect the current geoscan results as they are doing already.

btw, pre-patch, accuracy had almost NO meaning since you only had to know where a field is...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

I can confirm that 100% scanning removes the noise and allows you to find the last few little bits to clear the field.

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Ok, so Newbie player X, that is sporting a Termis (can not afford a riveler at the new prices), *MUST* have a T4 Geoscanner and Basic Geochemistry level 10 (40k EP or 28+ days) to get 100% Scan Accuracy to clear a field or a new one will not spawn?

Ya, this is gonna work  =P

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

New fields don't spawn when you clear one, there is an average low limit of different ores available per island, once it reaches that threshold a new one spawns.

RIP PERPETUUM

8 (edited by Karism 2012-06-04 04:29:16)

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Jojid wrote:

I can confirm that 100% scanning removes the noise and allows you to find the last few little bits to clear the field.

I'm pretty sure the bonus on the termis or argano will allow for having less than level 10 geochemistry/t4 geoscanner, though the exact values i am not sure of.

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

MonocleWinski wrote:

Ok, so Newbie player X, that is sporting a Termis (can not afford a riveler at the new prices), *MUST* have a T4 Geoscanner and Basic Geochemistry level 10 (40k EP or 28+ days) to get 100% Scan Accuracy to clear a field or a new one will not spawn?

Ya, this is gonna work  =P

False

A t4 geoscanner on a termis that gets a better scan accuracy than the rivler due to bonuses is better that the rivler because it has no bonuses to scanning. Most veteran miners use an argano to scan down the field before switching to a full turner fit rivler mk2.

You only need like lvl 4 or 5 geo chem and advanced or basic robotics 4 or 5 to get 100%

Participate, Congratulate cause everything else will be seen as HATE.
Max yellow max all skills lvl 10 min max for the win

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Khader Khan wrote:

You only need like lvl 4 or 5 geo chem and advanced or basic robotics 4 or 5 to get 100%

This

You need the accuracy skill on 10 and a T4 geoscanner if you want to have 100% accuracy on any bot.

If you do it in a bot that gives you accuracy bonus (Argano/Termis) then you do not need skill on 10 nor a T4 geoscanner.

Industrial Junkie

11 (edited by Mark Zima 2012-06-04 13:25:25)

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

It should not require a 100% geostcanner and 100% mining out of a field. Badly designed gameplay right here.

UPD: suggestion to fix that is
1) scanner should ignore the fields below a ceretain threshold;
2) automatically dissipate (recycle into a common material pool) such mined out fields regularly, like, every day.

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

make all ores liquids!

Or make the directional geoscanner charge ignore a bigger % of ore in a region.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Mark Zima wrote:

It should not require a 100% geostcanner and 100% mining out of a field. Badly designed gameplay right here.

Agree 100%

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Mark Zima wrote:

It should not require a 100% geostcanner and 100% mining out of a field. Badly designed gameplay right here.

UPD: suggestion to fix that is
1) scanner should ignore the fields below a ceretain threshold;
2) automatically dissipate (recycle into a common material pool) such mined out fields regularly, like, every day.

+1, maybe accuracy could affect directional charges so that instead of just showing you where a field is the higher the percent accuracy the better the field (aka bigger/redder) it takes you to if there is more than one, so there is actually a benefit for putting the points in besides just finding a field.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Crepitus wrote:
Mark Zima wrote:

It should not require a 100% geostcanner and 100% mining out of a field. Badly designed gameplay right here.

UPD: suggestion to fix that is
1) scanner should ignore the fields below a ceretain threshold;
2) automatically dissipate (recycle into a common material pool) such mined out fields regularly, like, every day.

+1, maybe accuracy could affect directional charges so that instead of just showing you where a field is the higher the percent accuracy the better the field (aka bigger/redder) it takes you to if there is more than one, so there is actually a benefit for putting the points in besides just finding a field.

that would be exactly the oppositte of what i would expect from training up an accuracy:

if i keep my accuracy low, i will only find the best deposits, and with high accuracy you are doomed to dustbusting leftovers.

we already had the whole discussion in another topic... There is a regular roaming npcs spawn of mining-laser fitted arganos and scarabs -> they are only there as targets. give them a meaning aside of that...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

16 (edited by Crepitus 2012-06-04 17:07:05)

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Annihilator wrote:
Crepitus wrote:
Mark Zima wrote:

It should not require a 100% geostcanner and 100% mining out of a field. Badly designed gameplay right here.

UPD: suggestion to fix that is
1) scanner should ignore the fields below a ceretain threshold;
2) automatically dissipate (recycle into a common material pool) such mined out fields regularly, like, every day.

+1, maybe accuracy could affect directional charges so that instead of just showing you where a field is the higher the percent accuracy the better the field (aka bigger/redder) it takes you to if there is more than one, so there is actually a benefit for putting the points in besides just finding a field.

that would be exactly the oppositte of what i would expect from training up an accuracy:

if i keep my accuracy low, i will only find the best deposits, and with high accuracy you are doomed to dustbusting leftovers.

we already had the whole discussion in another topic... There is a regular roaming npcs spawn of mining-laser fitted arganos and scarabs -> they are only there as targets. give them a meaning aside of that...

Then there would be no reason to use a miner for the field finding only the actual tile scans.  Hugely broken.

EDIT: In fact, it would dissuade you from using a miner and from maxing out your skills on said miner because you would actually nerfing yourself in to chasing ghost tiles.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

This is fragmentation. The problem isn't with the tile scan, it's with the directional scan pointing players to the 'nearest' tile with such a small % of that mineral left because almost no one is going to completely mine out any field; but this post does highlight the issues with 'leaving' small amounts for new players to find.

Tile scans are tradeable now, not in field cans, but in terminals. I believe Dev's were saying they thought this could become a new service, however it seems much too time consuming to ever develop into one. Alpha tile scans have a short 'shelf life' so something like trying to sell a scan to the OP would require them to scan it in real time, return to the outpost, and trade it to the OP; just so they could go mine .09%.

You can also see the problems developing here. The game can't simply push results off the directional scan once they get below a certain %, or the issue of fragmentation would accuulate over time.

There were other suggestions, the easiest from the player perspective is; when the server does the periodic 'ore' check for min amounts on the islands, it simply removes any tile with less than X amount of ore in it.

However, its going to take a lot of convincing, I believe, to get devs off the mindset that the players should hover up the fragments.

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Frankly, I think they will ignore it, at least until they see a significant number of "*** this I quit" threads from indy players in the trial forums.  Hopefully that holds true for some of the other things as well.

Population graphs

<GM Synapse> please don't abuse our fresh players before blowing them up. And for god sakes, don't do that after it!

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Mark Zimas recycling idea is good. This feature needs to be expanded on... Hell even I don't mine out a field 100% EVER and I am a veteran player/miner.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

20 (edited by Karism 2012-06-04 19:06:33)

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but i think that tiles with less than a certain amount of minerals in them should degrade to 0 over the course of a couple hours, thus freeing it from interfering with directional scanning.

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Just add a 24/48hrs timer once a miner starts extracting a field, after that time its gone and a new fresh one spawns.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

sandbox

there is the profession of "defrag"-Argano driver wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

Annihilator wrote:

sandbox

there is the profession of "defrag"-Argano driver wink


Next time I see an Argano free-tiling it on alpha I'm going to shoot them a payout smile

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

btw, bug resolved - was no bug
Initial Question:

Is it intended that mined-out fields still show on directional?

Simple Answer:
No its not intended, but your inferiours geoscan accuracy didn't make it able for you to see that there was still something left.

Solution:
up your accuracy wink by raising geochemistry one more level, your using a t4+ geoscanner...

mystery solved.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Mined-out grid still on directional?

over time ppl will get used to not beeing lazy *** and mine the whole field. I like the new system and I think it should stay as it is.

And if you are a dedicated miner then up your geoscanning accuracy skill to lvl 10, its a low ranked skill anyway.

Industrial Junkie