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Topic: Fog of War for large engagements

In another thread, it was mentioned that distance calculations for many bots simultaneously might be causing crashes in the clients of some people. I basically just made a new suggestion post and cut and pasted my comment there in here.

About those massive PVP battles:  Why are we precisely calculating all of these distances anyway?

If more than X robots are within your detection and ranging radius, switch modes to a fog or war mode.

Fog of war mode would only tell you the precise distance between you and anyone targeting you, or anyone you have targeted.  Everyone else would be an approximation.  Zero range, short range, medium range, long range, extreme range.

Ranges could then be refreshed occasionally rather than continuously, and ranges would be based on each individual ship's targeting range.  Ewar robots might have the ability to track all distances precisely, but make it an option, not a feature.  If someone tries it and it crashes their machine, then next time they won't try it.

This would add a lot more realism to larger group PVP, and reduce the server / client range calculation issues as well.

Faster mechs might be able to move far enough that you might not see where they went - provided they were not in an engagement with you.

Perhaps allow mechs two size classes larger than other mechs to mask signatures, letting an aske hide under an assault class robot.  This would immediately be revealed by targeting the assault mech and isolating it's signature.

I could really see the fog of war adding a LOT to PVP combat.

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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

Or just optimize the client so that it will handle some mere hundreds of bots?

  • JOKE
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

Yeah! Remembering yesterdays large battle, i very want to see more optimization in client side... my comp easily runs large battles in supreme commander in HQ, but cant handle 40x40 in PO.

One man army
http://www.perp-kill.net/related/239910
  • -CS-
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

I'm not against optimization at all, but even when optimized, fog of war could be added.  This would allow even larger battles than optimizing alone, and allow lower end machines to participate in some battles that otherwise would be a problem for them even with optimization.

    I think it would be fun to allow more uncertainty on the battlefield, without implementing something silly like EVE's cloak and coast.

  • FAIL
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

want fog of war? go play command & conquer, later brosky.

  • TM-UAS
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

which "range" calculations your talking about exactly?

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  • -CS-
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

Distances between your mech and everyone else's mechs.

Sure there isn't collision in the game, but it has to have at least some effect on the server when a 50x50 battle means the server must keep 100 people updated on the positions of 99 other people at near realtime rates.  At the very least that's going to be 9900 updates per update cycle - just for sending the data to the clients, not to mention calculating them.

With "fog of war", you could reduce the range calculation rates to any non targeted or targeting to once per second or two and only send basic range data, not specific data.

You would still see mechs moving around, but they might not be exactly where you thought they were, until you target them, at which point they would firm up in your sensors and give you good info.

  • |GIMP|
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

Wouldn't the calculations still need to be made to determine distance before being able to assign each one to the groups you mentioned in the OP?

  • OC
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

I think Doc Iridium is simplifying the issue here.

10 Reply by Doc Iridium (edited by Doc Iridium 2010-12-09 20:27:36)

  • -CS-
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

Surge wrote:

I think Doc Iridium is simplifying the issue here.

Of course I am, thats the entire purpose - simplifying the issue smile

JUST for calculating where everyone is in regards to each other, on the database side, lets assume that in a 50x50 battle, 9900 calculations would normally be performed every 0.25 seconds and the data sent to the clients.  9900 calculations, 9900 pieces of data sent. every 0.25 seconds.

Now with fog of war, every 0.25 seconds the same calculations are made on targeted enemies, or enemies that you are targeting, or those that have you targeted.  each bot is capable of a maximum of 10 targets I think? (unsure what the real maximum is) but 100x10 would be 1000 precise calculations every 0.25 seconds.

The fog part is that the rest of the calculations are performed only every second.  Here's what I'm thinking.  At every second, a vector is calculated for each bot on the field, and the current position and vector is sent to the client.  Every 0.25 seconds, any bot that is not being closely tracked, has it's movement vector extrapolated and that is where the client displays the other bot.

This should not be present at all in small group combat, only larger group combat.

It may be better to only have fog of war affect enemies, which would still reduce the intensity of the calculations, but not by as much.  Otherwise staying in formation in a fight would be a bit rough.

It should be an option.  If you want to see everyone, you can, but normally only the scouts and leadership really have a need to see where everyone on the field is at all times.  Everyone else should be concentrating on repping the enemy's target, or pouring fire into the target your force commander has designated.  Or both big_smile

  • TM-UAS
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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

i actualy asking why you think that the server sends your client the "distance", and not just the location + velocity vector?

anything else can be caclulated by the client. and less data is not possible, or you wont be able to SEE anyone in a battle on your screen.

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Re: Fog of War for large engagements

If database calculations are seriously an issue for a 50x50 engagement then there are serious problems that wouldn't be fixed by anything said in this thread so far.