176 (edited by Celebro 2011-12-10 21:42:57)

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Mark Zima wrote:

**The only real benefit of being on beta is epriton access. And you don't need to own an outpost for it.


Define 'real benefit'.


Edit: I am sick of this thread maybe the players who don't like the new intrusions at all, should change play style, go to alpha, or I could show you a door to the other pathetic mmos out there and leave.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Celebro wrote:
Mark Zima wrote:

**The only real benefit of being on beta is epriton access. And you don't need to own an outpost for it.


Define 'real benefit'.

Final cost of production, ability to sustain PVP.

178

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Celebro wrote:
Mark Zima wrote:

**The only real benefit of being on beta is epriton access. And you don't need to own an outpost for it.


Define 'real benefit'.


Edit: I am sick of this thread maybe the players who don't like the new intrusions at all, should change play style, go to alpha, or I could show you a door to the other pathetic mmos out there and leave.

Sup Bra

Haters Gunna hate

Undefeated 2013
"Even alone you probably are one of the best" - Khader Khan
"Lemon the 1 man army .... also know as: THE TERMINATOR!" - Obi Wan
"There are people who are just better then you at doing many things at one time, some are far better then myself, far better." -Merkle

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Lemon wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Mark Zima wrote:

**The only real benefit of being on beta is epriton access. And you don't need to own an outpost for it.


Define 'real benefit'.


Edit: I am sick of this thread maybe the players who don't like the new intrusions at all, should change play style, go to alpha, or I could show you a door to the other pathetic mmos out there and leave.

Sup Bra

Haters Gunna hate

As you are a sportscaster now, not an agent. I will let it pass this time. No hate, just sick.

Peace wink

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Mark Zima wrote:
Celebro wrote:
Mark Zima wrote:

**The only real benefit of being on beta is epriton access. And you don't need to own an outpost for it.


Define 'real benefit'.

Final cost of production, ability to sustain PVP.

You sound like a alpha producer, come back birds are singing here!

Real benefit should be more PVP, everyone whining before patch about, no pvp.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

U trollin or what? PVP success is measured in ISK, i mean NIC.

182

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Mark Zima wrote:

Arga, you could disagree all you want since you have no idea of what you are talking about.
I'm sick of theorycrafters arguing with experience. Go put your assets in a lockable outpost and defend a few 1 hr intrusions. For a few days straight. For very small benefits of actually owning the outpost**. THEN shine with your infinite wisdom.

**The only real benefit of being on beta is epriton access. And you don't need to own an outpost for it.

Your suggesting that I need to experience the stress of possibly losing my assests in order to understand that it's stressful?

That's sounds like risk vs reward to me, but again how could anyone understand risk vs reward without actually experiencing it, that would be crazy.

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

My gameplay is actually not all that affected by the changes.  I can only play for a few pre-defined hours on specific days so no matter how many intrusions are occurring at 2am or 2pm I will not be there.

For many of us who were active on beta before I2.0 the problem was lack of other people to play with/against.  It stemmed from the imbalance of risk/effort vs reward and lack of incentives encouraging small groups of people to venture out on beta.

Since the changes I have not seen anyone new try to move to beta and take an outpost.  The fundamental reason for this I think is that you gain very little while being pounced on by predatory corps who would fight each-other for a piece of your pie. 

Perhaps its too early to tell but judging by everyone's mood, the new system is not encouraging anyone to try to move out to beta.

As for the people talking tough and saying that everyone else is not hardcore enough for beta, well we will see how many of you are still active in three months time when there's nobody left to shoot.

+1
-Confucius

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Kaldenines wrote:

My gameplay is actually not all that affected by the changes.  I can only play for a few pre-defined hours on specific days so no matter how many intrusions are occurring at 2am or 2pm I will not be there.

For many of us who were active on beta before I2.0 the problem was lack of other people to play with/against.  It stemmed from the imbalance of risk/effort vs reward and lack of incentives encouraging small groups of people to venture out on beta.

Since the changes I have not seen anyone new try to move to beta and take an outpost.  The fundamental reason for this I think is that you gain very little while being pounced on by predatory corps who would fight each-other for a piece of your pie. 

Perhaps its too early to tell but judging by everyone's mood, the new system is not encouraging anyone to try to move out to beta.

As for the people talking tough and saying that everyone else is not hardcore enough for beta, well we will see how many of you are still active in three months time when there's nobody left to shoot.

well who is going to move to beta?? there are hardly any new players in this game! no new corp to try to give it a go.

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

William Wallace wrote:

well who is going to move to beta?? there are hardly any new players in this game! no new corp to try to give it a go.

So are you looking for a corp or just unhappy with the low population?

I suspect the game still has a reasonable number of subscribers.  There is just not that much to do.

You can mine, farm, scan for artifacts or waste your NIC on pvp in which you can't actually win anything.  This leads to people either staying on alpha or joining the blob because everything they can do in a small group is easier and less risky and most importantly no less profitable as a blob.

Devs I do appreciate that you need to make changes in small incremental steps.  I am all for that.  However, I would ask you to please think outside the box.  What is important now is not the specific game mechanics you use but what kind of game play they encourage.

If only care-bear (alpha or beta) activities are profitable there will be a lack of pvp.  Some of you may think 'well that's fine, I only want to pvp every now and then' but remember this: if players don't get blown up there is no demand for bots or modules and market dries up.

+1
-Confucius

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

But there is only an increase in demand for bots / modules if the ratters go out to Beta (PVP open zone) to rat for profit (thus risking getting blown up), while ratting is done on Alpha there is no risk involved.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

187 (edited by Celebro 2011-12-13 12:04:56)

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Syndic wrote:

But there is only an increase in demand for bots / modules if the ratters go out to Beta (PVP open zone) to rat for profit (thus risking getting blown up), while ratting is done on Alpha there is no risk involved.

Are you asking to force alpha players to move to beta ,so they can farm kernals? Alpha = less rewards,many of us, although in corps and low player base, do most things solo, you can't expect me to take my heavy to beta solo, its far to risky for the rewards.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Celebro wrote:
Syndic wrote:

But there is only an increase in demand for bots / modules if the ratters go out to Beta (PVP open zone) to rat for profit (thus risking getting blown up), while ratting is done on Alpha there is no risk involved.

Are you asking to force alpha players to move to beta ,so they can farm kernals? Alpha = less rewards,many of us, although in corps and low player base, do most things solo, you can't expect me to take my heavy to beta solo, its far to risky for the rewards.

Exactly my point, its too risky for the rewards when you can get the same thing done on Alpha.

Speaking from my own experience; my corp farms plasma all day long on Alpha in perfect safety. We mine everything except Epriton on Alpha in perfect safety, and ferry what we need to Beta. Why? Because it's more convenient to haul over some plasma/commodities/ore then to get everyone together for a guard-squad to protect 30-40 Riveler Mk2's all day long.

Alpha should afford people a stable income, but Beta should be where players go to risk their stuff in exchange for the possibility of getting more rich then they normally would on Alpha. At the moment the "rich" factor only happens through farming plasma on Alpha, hauling it over to Beta with a massive guard squad and boom, I'm instant-rich. Minimal risk involved.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

189 (edited by Atticus 2011-12-13 17:12:02)

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

I wish I could get into the forum trolling wars between my ingame "enemies" and my allies but I just don't care. Its fun to have a few exchanges in GC or here with Lemon, Ville, Syndic et al but w/e. And my view on Syndic's recent punishment is that I really didn't notice his ingame absence nor did it affect my gameplay either way. Now he's back and simply a more likely primary target when I'm on a roam. Maybe others should take that view?

But this post (and thread) is about I2.0 feedback so here's some:

I think so far the mechanics of I2.0 are great and make for some fantastic gameplay (for Beta and general Pvp). Defending kinda sucks if no one comes but maybe that will be tweaked a bit. The real problem seems to be the low server population.  But I don't think the Devs should alter the I2.0 mechanics because of this, it's a sound system. I believe you have to make the game for how you want it to play, and not accomodate a current and (hopefully) temporary condition. To that end I would ask the Devs what is your advertising and marketing strategy for the near future? Please tell us how you will push the game for more subscribers. This patch is a good first step in revamping Beta for corp empire building and warfare, and coupled with the recent Npc spawn changes and revamped assignments (Pve stuff) I think you guys are on the right track. This system would work extremely well with 20-30 islands, or a few additional continents, and a 1000 active players but what is AC doing to achieve this? Just curious .....

Also, Nova, don't ever stop blobbing, please. I like a strong enemy, and the challenge. But I like the open-endedness of the sandbox that allows you to, even more. I really want as few restrictions on gameplay as possible (but understand the need for some parameters) I'm having great fun lately fighting and killing you guys (and dying!) And its been a blast smile

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Still a bad mechanic, still discourages ppl to actually live on beta, and still Syndic makes more sense than most in this thread..................... The end is Nigh smile

191

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Dazamin wrote:

Still a bad mechanic, still discourages ppl to actually live on beta, and still Syndic makes more sense than most in this thread..................... The end is Nigh smile

I'm quite sure you have to actively play the game to come to this conclusion. Where are you Dazamin? wink

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Devs broke Dazamin sad so I'm on alts more often than not smile Also devs fix my character!!!!!!!!

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

DEV Zoom wrote:

But honestly I see some old mindsets applied to the new system, which won't work. If you are not able to show up every 2-4 hours at one of your SAPs, chances are you own more outposts than you can handle. This works as intended and it pretty much regulates itself. Yes, the current low population means that the majority of the corporations will only be able to hold one outpost. If you are able to see this objectively, there is nothing wrong with it.
.

There is nothing wrong with logging into a game every 2 to 4 hours in every 24 hour period? 

Even if you mean 'on average twice at random points in every 24 hour period' that is still nothing short of insulting to the community.  Why the fetish for alarm clocking?  If you are going to say that statistically the times when you can and can't be there will cancel out, why discriminate against people who actually have a job/are in education?  Why not remove scanning for intrusion times altogether?  You could always balance attacker/defender advantages using intrusion frequency, stability gain/loss per intrusion, and the difficulty of taking a SAP.  There are endless possibilities.

btw does anyone actually think the specimen processing mechanic is appropriate for the current system?

TLDR: Remove scanning for intrusion times and re-balance the system around that.  Stop expecting players to dedicate their entire existence to the game.

+1
-Confucius

194

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Kaldenines wrote:
DEV Zoom wrote:

But honestly I see some old mindsets applied to the new system, which won't work. If you are not able to show up every 2-4 hours at one of your SAPs, chances are you own more outposts than you can handle. This works as intended and it pretty much regulates itself. Yes, the current low population means that the majority of the corporations will only be able to hold one outpost. If you are able to see this objectively, there is nothing wrong with it.
.

There is nothing wrong with logging into a game every 2 to 4 hours in every 24 hour period? 

Even if you mean 'on average twice at random points in every 24 hour period' that is still nothing short of insulting to the community.  Why the fetish for alarm clocking?  If you are going to say that statistically the times when you can and can't be there will cancel out, why discriminate against people who actually have a job/are in education?  Why not remove scanning for intrusion times altogether?  You could always balance attacker/defender advantages using intrusion frequency, stability gain/loss per intrusion, and the difficulty of taking a SAP.  There are endless possibilities.

btw does anyone actually think the specimen processing mechanic is appropriate for the current system?

TLDR: Remove scanning for intrusion times and re-balance the system around that.  Stop expecting players to dedicate their entire existence to the game.

I think its fine the way it is.  Scanning is so yesterday.  I have not scanned a SAP in two weeks.

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Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

So Ville, any update on your opinion of scanning?

+1
-Confucius

196

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

If an attacker wants the outpost bad enough he should have some idea when to attack it.  Mechanic is fine as is.

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Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Yeah agreed Ville.

However I think the defenders should automatically know when their saps go vulnerable or at least be notified anywhere on the island.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.

198

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

What sundial said

199 (edited by Kaldenines 2012-01-29 11:09:56)

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Ville wrote:

If an attacker is bored enough he should have some idea when to attack it.  Mechanic is fine as is.

I mean is anyone attacking Norhoop actually gonna move in there any time this year?  Hardly seems like a representation of player activity on an island.  More like institutionalised griefing which would only be much worse with a larger population.  This mechanic encourages blobbing of the worst kind.

Don't get me wrong, removing scanning and changing nothing else may lead to too much of a defender advantage as things stand.  Perhaps some kind of re-balancing would be needed (in small incremental steps).  However attackers would have to use the people they have online at the time rather then arranging a CTA once they know the time.

For those who like massive fights and CTAs, perhaps that could come later with PBSs.

+1
-Confucius

200

Re: Intrusion 2.0 issues and feedback

Or perhaps if someone lost something very expensive and they nerd raged.  It gives them an outlet to do something  that doesn't involve cutting themselves or shooting up a school.  smile  Because we all know who the best PVPer on the server is.

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