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Is there any chance we can get the volume of this lowered, like triandlus, as its taking me roughly a minute to fill the cargo on my Symbiont, and its getting really annoying having to go back to the can every minute, even if it was half the volume it is now would be better.
thanks
They already lowered plants and ore volumes a few months ago.
Using a Lithus helps immensely.
He is talking about harvester cargo hold not hauling , tbh miner/harvester mechs need a increased cargo capacity. Why should you need to be more actively harvesting with higher skills?
He is talking about harvester cargo hold not hauling , tbh miner/harvester mechs need a increased cargo capacity. Why should you need to be more actively harvesting with higher skills?
This could also be solved like I have previously suggested, cargo access modules for bots that allow people to use them like a field container.
But yeah, I agree the cargo hold of these bots seem quite small for what their intended purpose is.
The answer is simple:
Use more cans!
Earlier today I pulled over 900U of Helio in 1 area. 650U within the radius of a single can. I was located within 300m of a TP on an alpha island.
Rarely do I need to use more then 2 cans to pull 700+U of helio from an area. You just have to find the dense areas just like you have to find the red tiles of ore.
In the amounts that helio is used when refining into commodities and then said commodities are used in production the weight is fine.
Even if container is close, needing to unload a full cargo every minute on a symbiont is excessive. As volume for raw mats has already been reduced, both the riveler/symboint need a an increased cargo hold at least the mk2s which. Can't imagine the fustration with a maxed out miner/harvester and full t4 . A cargo capacity bonus for all industrial would be welcome as an alternative
a raw-material-pre-refining module would be a better addition
I didnt think they had lowered the volume of helioptris but maybe i am wrong, when you look at it compared to triandlus which you can get something like 280k units in the cargo hold compared to helio which gets you around 84k it makes a big difference. I do look for the big patches to harvest but eventually you end up moving out of range of the can. Like i said even making it so you could get 168k would be a big help. I also do use a Lithus :-)
for me, even with symbiont and above average harvesting skills, helioptris farmings feels about right, while triandlus feels like "umpf, cleared everything in visual range around my container, and my robot cargo is still not full"
hmm sidequestion: how much helio you need to craft X things, and how much Triandlus you need ?
I think that Helioptris is a bit too high volume compared to all other ores and plants and I can't remember Helioptris volume changing this year.
To the amount of plants needed to craft, you need only few helioptris for 1 Plasteosine, but that doesn't really count as you need lots of Plasteosine for production and you need half the amount of helioptris than the amount of titanore.
Polynitrocol and Polynucleit needs the same amount of Helioptris respective Triandlus and both commodities are in my opinion in same amount needed for production.
My mistake helioptris volume was never reduced.
From new assignments patch notes:
Change: Lowered raw material volume of epriton, imentium, liquizit, stermonit, triandlus and noralgis.
Although I've only been playing the game for a bit over 2 weeks, in that time I've noticed that the price of helioptris in the player market makes no sense compared to the other minerals. In terms of volume hauled, even humble titanium becomes more efficient in terms of nic/volume transported (i.e., current buy offer of titanium ore at 0.46 earns more in 80 U than 80U of helio...)
This reflects in my opinion a pretty unbalanced reality when it comes to helio....
market price is made by player, not the DEVs.
it should reflect support and demand. Most things need titan ore, HDT, Imentium and stermonit.
helioptris is only used in
-Phlobotil (explosive ammo, firearms),
-Polynitrocol (chemoactive ammo) and
-Plasteosine (more common, but comparable low quantity)
a bad refiner can turn your 80U helio into 25k plasteosine (eg. 25 med armor plates, or 100 t1 Tunings)
Although I've only been playing the game for a bit over 2 weeks, in that time I've noticed that the price of helioptris in the player market makes no sense compared to the other minerals. In terms of volume hauled, even humble titanium becomes more efficient in terms of nic/volume transported (i.e., current buy offer of titanium ore at 0.46 earns more in 80 U than 80U of helio...)
This reflects in my opinion a pretty unbalanced reality when it comes to helio....
there is no (and never will be) a volume/nic correlation between various ores of materials. that is entirely determined by the end products that need them and the demand for said end products.
the decision is actualy dependant on what your goal is:
1. maximum time to nic
2. maximum produced items
I dont think the NIC has anything to do with the volume, But i think Helioptris could use a little "trimming" to make it more transportable.
I dont think the NIC has anything to do with the volume, But i think Helioptris could use a little "trimming" to make it more transportable.
there are only 2 reasons to harvest/mine:
1. you want to sell the ore/plant
2. you want to build something
both translate into nic per unit of volume, the frist option more directly.
collecting materials for 100 Armor plates:
2500 Titanium (*30 Titan ore)
1000 Plasteosine (*20 Titan ore, 10 Helioptris)
results in:
95000 Titan ore (*0.00005U) = 4.75 U ~ 38k NIC
10000 helioptris (*0.00025U) = 2.50 U ~ 15k NIC
result for me: helio market price per U is very close together.
titanium = 8000 NIC/U
Helioptris = 6000 NIC/U
mining/harvesting speed (without bonus)
titanium 0.0375 U / cycle (~300NIC)
helioptris 0.1125 U / cycle (~675NIC)
collecting materials for 100 Armor plates:
2500 Titanium (*30 Titan ore)
1000 Plasteosine (*20 Titan ore, 10 Helioptris)results in:
95000 Titan ore (*0.00005U) = 4.75 U ~ 38k NIC
10000 helioptris (*0.00025U) = 2.50 U ~ 15k NICresult for me: helio market price per U is very close together.
titanium = 8000 NIC/U
Helioptris = 6000 NIC/Umining/harvesting speed (without bonus)
titanium 0.0375 U / cycle (~300NIC)
helioptris 0.1125 U / cycle (~675NIC)
Very informative, I would think with much more players, the price per unit of Titan would go down, also a larger game world will increase helioptris prices per unit. Harvesting helioptris seems more profitable in any case because it fills the cargo hold faster than Titan, unless hauling becomes the cap in a mining session.
I think helioptris and titan are bad examples to compare, as titan spots tend to be good and compareable near to terminal. So you can mine without much travel.
When you think in cycles, even orange titan spots have significant more than 50 cycles, which is the maximum for alpha helioptris before you need to move. And while titan spots have
a large size with often more than 20 good spots without moving your bot, a harvester can be lucky, if he has 20 good plants (at least 25 cycles) within can reach.
I think that harvesting has bad scaling from Laird to Symbiont.
Maybe you can compare Helioptris a bit with Immentium, as Immentium seems to me to have less cycles in deep red tile than other ores and I don't know than many really large Imentium spots on Alpha compared to other ores but you should more compare it to Trilandus as there are significant differences between mining and harvesting, that lead to different prices.
well, the TC started with those two, so i have based my argumentation about those.
meanwhile, i got the idea: Gargaj, please add a "NIC/U" column to the market
@Hugh and Annihi:
The process for gathering any material in this game seems to include at least two processes (three for noralgis)... mine or harvest, then transport it. With noralgis there is a host of other problems, so setting that aside.
Given the similarities, lets just compare triandlus and helioptris. Given the volume disparity, it seems that a gathering-focused character would never in his right mind gather heliop for sale to the market -- because of the logistical problems.
Translating this into multi-role characters (or multi-account obsessed fanatics like myself ;-) ) it produces a dynamic wherein it never makes sense to sell helioptris on the market; I need it for my stuff and my Corp's stuff. Because I am certain I am not the only gathering/miner who has made this calculation, there is seldom much helio on the market at the scale needed for producing say... Lithus robots.
Demand-side is one factor of the pricing equation, the other is supply-side (what I feel it would be fair to sell at given my time/work/effort in gathering the material....). I would argue that given its volume it makes no sense to sell it at any of the price ranges I've seen. Adjusting its volume to make it comparable to triandlus would help enourmously IMO.
My $0.02. :-)
Out on beta there are tonnes and tonnes of helioptris growing within docking range (not close to, actually within docking range) of large outposts. I suspect that may be driving the price/demand down at the moment since corps with their own industry can just harvest it in their back yard.
@Kaldenines,
Good point. However, still end up in a logistical trap unless its sold out of that same outpost; end up in the same opprtunity-cost analysis (why transport helio when I can....[insert more profitable thing here].)
For the most part I'm resigned to collecting whatever I need at the time I need it, even on beta I would not consider selling it to market unless it was at the same outpost.
@Hugh and Annihi:
The process for gathering any material in this game seems to include at least two processes (three for noralgis)... mine or harvest, then transport it. With noralgis there is a host of other problems, so setting that aside.Given the similarities, lets just compare triandlus and helioptris. Given the volume disparity, it seems that a gathering-focused character would never in his right mind gather heliop for sale to the market -- because of the logistical problems.
Translating this into multi-role characters (or multi-account obsessed fanatics like myself ;-) ) it produces a dynamic wherein it never makes sense to sell helioptris on the market; I need it for my stuff and my Corp's stuff. Because I am certain I am not the only gathering/miner who has made this calculation, there is seldom much helio on the market at the scale needed for producing say... Lithus robots.
Demand-side is one factor of the pricing equation, the other is supply-side (what I feel it would be fair to sell at given my time/work/effort in gathering the material....). I would argue that given its volume it makes no sense to sell it at any of the price ranges I've seen. Adjusting its volume to make it comparable to triandlus would help enourmously IMO.
My $0.02. :-)
of course NIC/U is not the only parameter involved in all material gathering. it's just the one that the OP started with.
as such we are not covering the associated logistical problems :-)
However it's good to poke Anni in the eye at times. he's handy to do calculations I am too lazy to do myself :-)) thanks Anni ...
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