I do think Sensor strength should affect the chance of getting demobbed too, but that's a sidenote in this thread

It might look low, but up to +60% from extension and then up 50% from nuimqol bonus is quite high, if we can allow people specialise so much in offensive EWAR, why can't we allow some way to counter it?

(And btw, I really don't see what the hitsize has to do with this, I did not say everything needs a counterextension However, when there's up to 3 offensive bonuses, but not a single defensive one, that's a bit odd)

sensor strength is not related to masking/detection Increasing the computing efficiency of your targeting computer should not affect how visible you are on radar... (Actually the ECM user would be very visible to everyone)

given fact that you need a year worth of extension just to max out that ewar stuff, nothing else, you still will hit a mech with maxed extension and t4 ecm for 61% chance, unless it has an ECCM fitted or is under heavy interference.

my issue with ECM is, that there is no threshold how many of them can be used on one target, and that Robots with low sensor strength will still have low resist against ECM, no matter how many ECCMs they fit (because its % increase, not absolute)

As an EWAR PvP pilot with above average skills, the game is pretty well balanced in regards to EWAR. ECCMS do have an effect against ECM unlike some other games (the chance of a successful "Jam" against a pilot who does have a ECCM fitted is greatly reduced, depending on tech level of the ECCM module and the amount of EP spent in of all things "Jamming and Complex Jamming) And everyone knows that to decrease the effects of demobs is to plate up. If you, as a pilot, are unwilling to change your fit because you want "MOAR PEWPEW" and faster bots, than suffer the consequences of walking about in a glass cannons.

Even in my relatively short time in this game, is there is a counter for every thing out there, nerf one and a snowball effect begins where the once useful counter is negated, something else becomes "OP" and everyone begins screaming for a nerf to that which leads to something else being called "OP" and so on and so on "ad infinitum".

You want balance?, then balance your squad. Not everyone can do DPS and then scream because you got jumped by a couple of fits with ECM and demobs and slaughtered because no one was fitted to counter them. There is no perfect build, there is only counters; counter, counters; and counter, counter, counters. If you want an "I win" button, go back to WoW.

There is such a thing as game balance, but there is also "in game balance" so try and experiment, it may cost you a few bots/ mechs, so try against your fellow corpies before using it for "Real" in a true PvP encounter. To give you an idea now, I ran in about 1/2 a dozen differing fits for a Camel before settling on the current, which was good, till some one came out with a counter to it and  ended up on the wrong side of a KM. It happens, you get over it, think of something else and try it out. But if you want an increase with sensor strength, I want an increase to jaming strength to counter it.

..

If you in a cameleon can completely shut down a t4 heavy mech, that is fair? Anyhow, I have to admit I don't have much PvP experience, but it sure doesn't sound right to me. I said nothing about nerfing EWAR to a nuisance by the way, so chill a bit.

But instead of just crying out arguments like "You don't know balance, I do! But I wont tell you why!" (which is impressive logic of course), let's do some theory, and you can counter the theory and where I am wrong (I might be):

Sensor strength of no ECCM heavy mech: 85
Sensor strength of a heavy mech with 2x T4 ECCMs (so heavy anti-EWAR): 167

Sensor supressor EW strength: 65
ECM EW strength: 35

Max Sensor suppressor EW strength: 140
Max ECM EW strength: 73.5

So from these figures we can conclude that EWAR-ing a heavy mech with no ECCM is really easy, and close to 100% fail-proof (this is fine, as he has no protection). However, note that even the hardcore anti EWAR heavy mech will extremely easily be sensor suppressed (83% chance), and ECM-ed with a 44%% chance. Saying the EWAR gas 3 EWAR modules, say 1x sensor suppressor and 2x ECMs, it should be fairly easy to never allow him to lock a target.

Thoughts on this? As I said, I'm not a PvP god, so feel free to point out any mistake in the theory. Is it really fine that 3x ECCMs are needed to make a good counter?

Correcting post, thanks anni

As I can sense it coming, let's keep the flame-war for another thread...

But really, what Ville is pointing out is valid, even if you equip more ECCMs you will never fully counter it, just slowly decrease the chance, even with 3 ECCMs there's a decent chance of getting jammed. No one in their right mind can think that equipping 3+ ECCMs should be needed for a heavy mech to defend himself against a light EWAR?

Just want to say again, about that: Ville: "Hmech Vs 3 Light Wars. http://perp-kill.net/?m=view&id=7578"
there was 3-4 more ew not just 3 so there was 7-8 ew (just ask Chaos) so that not real.

Btw 3 Cameleon maybe can kill 1 Seth with 6 -8 ECM, but they cant use really permanently ECM because accu, so then it not easy to kill, and that need long time maybe 7-10 minute so that really hard in an enemy island.

If you make any bot fully immune to ECM with fits/skills, then ECM will be mostly useless. Every lil' mofo with 2+ headslots will fit ECCM making ewars killing only newbies. So if you really want to improve Mech/Hmech Sensor strength, then ewars should be rebalanced aswell, maybe adding some medium ECM working better against big bots but worser against small (similar to energy warfare), or E-Mechs should have additional bonus forcing ppl to use them instead of lights against big bots, etc. In other case you will ake Vagabonds worthless to produce and use - why to bring expensive bot in PvP if it will be unable to ECM anything?

why to bring expensive bot in PvP if it will be unable to ECM anything?

^ why bring an expensive bot if you can't lock anything?

EW is fine as it is (at least suppressors and ecm), please stop these "nerf ecm" threads.