• BKK
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Topic: Observers

First: i was the biggest fan of observers when they have been implemented, for the reason they have been implemented.

BUT

with im VERY disappointed on how they developed.

1. the have become a farming target due to observer kernels.
-> result:
playerbase started to not shoot them down to avoid loss of mining equip, they startet do hunt them for research

2. artifact scanning made them easy farming targets
-> result:
several groups finished the intentionally slow research much faster then intended. research persistant, game got unbalanced and without goal for those ontop.

3. observer boost in DPS, locking range, etc.
-> result:
while they are not easy to farm anymore (there are still rather cheap builds that can do). they are no fun anymore.


PLEASE rethink your NPC balancing!

Observers should be:

1. a higher threat to lone agents then regular roaming npcs
2. no, really, no extra KERNEL drop.
3. no farming target (no extra high chance to drop plasma, or extra high level gear)
4. no cheating stats
5. just higher tier equip then regular npcs and perhaps a better AI

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • AIC
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Re: Observers

+1. We used to be able to take them down with teamwork, now its just *** rediculous to the point I won't even engage one.

Observers are only dangerous to those that don't know to not move.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
  • Infini
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Re: Observers

So observers are really hard now? How much on average was their range increased in the observer range buff patch?

  • MORTE
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Re: Observers

Something to discourage afk mining is good, but they kill non-afk miners quite regularly on alpha , which is not good. Also many ore fields do not get visited by them, so they fail yo stop afk miners.

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Re: Observers

hmm, no kernels from observers? WTF man? If u cant just find an art box and kill lonely stupid npc its not our fault.

Enjoy ur sandbox, and enjoy ur %islandname% while u can.
  • BKK
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Re: Observers

Purgatory wrote:

So observers are really hard now? How much on average was their range increased in the observer range buff patch?

i can only judge the sup. observer kain -

in its current form it has
650m locking and ECM range @ 63kph
500-550m Missile range

and obviously something above 120 sensor strength because i cannot supress it reliable with 97 EW-strength and three supressor.

the speed is 3 kph faster, but the range feels like 100m more range on everything.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
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Re: Observers

Yes nerf them, observer dont mining for their fit, imba-reps with unlim capasitor (ERP-fit sure). Also observers are not-so-lol pirates - u cant treat them in general chat or attack their miners. Obs roaming 24/7 all islands, EVEN APLFA!!!111 NEED NERF I WANNA BE NAMBER ANE PIRATE!

Enjoy ur sandbox, and enjoy ur %islandname% while u can.
  • CIR
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Re: Observers

SO observers now target your miners if you don't move? I remember being swarmed with obs and a caravan or 2 but not moving helped big_smile

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  • BKK
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Re: Observers

not yet, but that bug is about to be fixed soon

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • AIC
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Re: Observers

Annihilator wrote:

not yet, but that bug is about to be fixed soon

Its a bug not a feature?

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
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Re: Observers

I'd hope it's a bug. Standing still until a roaming NPC spawn leaves should not be a feature.
If this becomes an issue I am all for raising indy detection to 100 and leaving their masking at 80. Seeing an NPC coming to kill you is only fair..

  • Bacon
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Re: Observers

Alexander wrote:

I'd hope it's a bug. Standing still until a roaming NPC spawn leaves should not be a feature.
If this becomes an issue I am all for raising indy detection to 100 and leaving their masking at 80. Seeing an NPC coming to kill you is only fair..

LOL...i really hope you don't actually believe this.

Just Sayin
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  • BKK
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Re: Observers

Sundial wrote:
Annihilator wrote:

not yet, but that bug is about to be fixed soon

Its a bug not a feature?

patchnotes 2011-05-04 wrote:

'''Fix:''' Newly spawned NPCs did not notice stationary players. They've been sent to a spatial perception crash course.

should have been fixed already month ago. seems that fix isn't working, but i heard during my holiday trip that there is an AI update in the works.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
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Re: Observers

Alexander wrote:

I'd hope it's a bug. Standing still until a roaming NPC spawn leaves should not be a feature.
If this becomes an issue I am all for raising indy detection to 100 and leaving their masking at 80. Seeing an NPC coming to kill you is only fair..

Yeah... that or everyone will need to start using light bots to scout with a detector.

Looking forward to new players and new conflicts.
  • JOKE
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Re: Observers

I hope they let us know if any changes, so at least I have time to runaway and not keep still.

On another note I don't like these observers, the only option for miners would be to runaway which kind of spoils your mining session. Would rather have a more frequent roaming group of light bots or arhkes and if you are prepared a miner can take them on or tank them if fitted properly.

RIP PERPETUUM
  • CIR
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Re: Observers

Standing still shouldn't really work, I mean they are "Observers". Then again they are "Observers" and not "WTFPWN Invaders".

The Superior Observer found on Alpha II is very fast. There can be as little as 20 seconds between when the observer enters radar at 900m til he is at 600m locking range. The SO walks in bursts, moving a fair distance then slowing down and pausing, but generally covering a lot of terrain in 20 seconds.

A fully loaded Riveler can't out-run the SO, 20 seconds of warning is inadequate, even if you the miner is actively monitoring the radar. In conjunction with the SO making frequent and extensive rounds on Alpha, typically right over large mineral deposits, the combination is too dangerous for an alpha island.

My suggestion is that the Observers do not engage players, unless they are attacked, but if they spot players, they spawn a random NPC of the appropriate type to the Island to "take care of the interloper" as the Observer continues on it's way.

Or, give miners more time to get away - slower SO or longer detection range. Running a Masker/Detector on a mining bot is a non-starter. Mining on Alpha SHOULD NOT be balanced around multiple accounts; that is dev's can't assume a player will have a second or third character availble as a scout on alpha (but is a perfectly reasonable assumption for beta).

I agree with Celebro that having to run away from NPC's while mining is disruptive, but it is an Alpha II island, so there should be something that makes mining a little more difficult. But it should also be 'balanced', and the basically undefeatable SO is too much bot for Alpha II miners to deal with, make us move but give us enough warning to do so.

17 Reply by Jack Jombardo (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-09-12 22:26:02)

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Re: Observers

Super Observers are realy thought. The blue Kain on Tallesis might even be a bit TO strong (I rather run into the 3*4.Star spawn to then fighting him as I had better changs to survive against 3*4.Star the against 1*Kain SO *g*).

But he was never a problem while mining. I fit LWF to all my non-combat bots/mechs and with 75+ km/h you can outrun all SOs , even the blue one which is TERRIBLE fast.

  • Bacon
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Re: Observers

This still...really?

Just Sayin
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  • BAL
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Re: Observers

Arga wrote:

My suggestion is that the Observers do not engage players, unless they are attacked, but if they spot players, they spawn a random NPC of the appropriate type to the Island to "take care of the interloper" as the Observer continues on it's way.

Interesting and potentially effective compromise solution to the problem.

  • BKK
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Re: Observers

Arga wrote:

My suggestion is that the Observers do not engage players, unless they are attacked, but if they spot players, they spawn a random NPC of the appropriate type to the Island to "take care of the interloper" as the Observer continues on it's way.

for that, i would make "observer" a light ewar with masking and target painter running around

if your painted for certain timeframe, a "sweeper troop"  will teleport in to take care of you wink

this would have two benefits:
- masking and painting modules dropping
- not killing the observer could result in more targets wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear
  • CIR
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Re: Observers

The fix someone pasted was for observer artifacts. Not sure it was also for the roaming ones.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please
  • DoY
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Re: Observers

Annihilator wrote:
Arga wrote:

My suggestion is that the Observers do not engage players, unless they are attacked, but if they spot players, they spawn a random NPC of the appropriate type to the Island to "take care of the interloper" as the Observer continues on it's way.

for that, i would make "observer" a light ewar with masking and target painter running around

if your painted for certain timeframe, a "sweeper troop"  will teleport in to take care of you wink

this would have two benefits:
- masking and painting modules dropping
- not killing the observer could result in more targets wink

Seems like a good idea. They can even spawn some elite NPCs as these "sweeper troops".

Have a productive day, runner!
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  • SotA
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Re: Observers

As a mostly mining toon atm I very much against the ideas of more aggro toward miners/harvesters from Observers and Mobile NPC Spawns(MNS).

First off field containers would need to have their timers doubled.  MNS are slow as hell.  Yes that makes them very easy to run from if one is paying attention to their landmarks but you are going to lose you container waiting for them to move through an area so you can get back to it.

Next off be ready for ore prices to probably double if you increase aggro on miners.  If miners are getting blown up more you can be sure they are gonna charge more so they can keep replacing their bots/gear.  Plus a large number of players will simply opt to stay at the few spots per island that have no aggro moving through/near it.  These "safe" spots will remain even more perma drained than they are now and even less ore will be coming into the market because of it.

Requiring miners to have protection with them on alpha islands is not realistic.  Who wants to sit and watch a miner for hours on end so that 1-2 an hour they can pop a npc then go back to watching the pretty mining laser lights.  And with only 1 weapon slot it is not realistic to expect miners to be able to defend themselves.

24 Reply by Scyylla (edited by Scyylla 2011-09-14 16:37:36)

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Re: Observers

Robophiliac wrote:

As a mostly mining toon atm I very much against the ideas of more aggro toward miners/harvesters from Observers and Mobile NPC Spawns(MNS).

First off field containers would need to have their timers doubled.  MNS are slow as hell.  Yes that makes them very easy to run from if one is paying attention to their landmarks but you are going to lose you container waiting for them to move through an area so you can get back to it.

Next off be ready for ore prices to probably double if you increase aggro on miners.  If miners are getting blown up more you can be sure they are gonna charge more so they can keep replacing their bots/gear.  Plus a large number of players will simply opt to stay at the few spots per island that have no aggro moving through/near it.  These "safe" spots will remain even more perma drained than they are now and even less ore will be coming into the market because of it.

Requiring miners to have protection with them on alpha islands is not realistic.  Who wants to sit and watch a miner for hours on end so that 1-2 an hour they can pop a npc then go back to watching the pretty mining laser lights.  And with only 1 weapon slot it is not realistic to expect miners to be able to defend themselves.

I must disagree with you.

A PVE toon risks his bot and fittings every time he engages a spawn. The same should be expected of an indy toon. There should be risk associated with mining and harvesting just like there is risk in every profession in the game. Even straight manufacturing toons risk starting a production run and having someone else stock the market with the same item before the build is done.

We all have to take risks and I fully endorse aggro from wandering spawns and observers.

Scylla
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25 Reply by Annihilator (edited by Annihilator 2011-09-14 16:51:30)

  • BKK
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Re: Observers

Robo:

current situation:
hundreds of static grinding spots, not much different from "mining" spots. You have to stay in same place for a very long time to collect anything reasonable for production.

roaming npcs are rather seldom, and their AI is bugged.

future situation:
very few static grinding spots. Ore deposits wont regrow in same place, npcs wont respawn magically in same location for harvesting. Those Player who gain their money from killing NPCs will have to walk around to "hunt" roaming npcs, and keep them away from Mining player naturally.

probably mining will change a bit towards less time intensive mining process and a bit more hauling, but less hauling necessary to build something. (i like to compare it with C&C harvester. They had a good balance between gather time, effective yield and travel time - just a really really crappy AI)

ontop of that: my suggestion with the target painting NPCs would result in a "warning" for the miner, as he get locked before the DPS arrives, and he has the chance to kill the painter with his single weapon slot (prefferable medium missiles wink)

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear