• Cons
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Topic: Training Time and Skill Remaps

Simple calculations reveal that training times are in years to max out various skills trees.  On top of that, we cannot optimize our training because we cannot remap our training attributes - ever - unless we utilize our option to do an account reset with associated loses.  No thanks.

I suggest review of two factors:
1) extension point accumulation time in view of no attribute remaps
or
2) ability to regularly reassign attribute points so we can optimize for more than single tiny little specific area.
or
3) Both 1 & 2

I do not like paying for a very long time to simply unlock skills.  This directly means lengthy limitations to access of game features and capabilities. There is no way to accelerate this as extension points accrue at a fixed rate of 1/min.  New players will always feel at a disadvantage, even more so as time goes on.  The strategy of "groups count more than skills" inevitably leads to the undesirable blob warfare we saw in EvE. Thanks how GoonSwarm was formed.  If that is where this game is going, and I think it is, no thanks.

Some say that boredom will be rapidly be achieved if you gain skills too fast.  I say it is the opposite.  It is boring to pay for long periods of time and gain only minimal new content/features/capabilities.  Where is the fun in that?  Um, it is not fun at all.

For those who feel slowly acquired gains bring a sense of accomplishment and meaning, quit the game and try real life, in which building skills and beating the competition takes, literally, a life time.  The only thing I want from a game is fun recreation.  And paying and waiting, then paying more and waiting more, does not cut it.  Sure, there's ample player interaction along the training path.  But it is much more fun if we can try out new features and capabilities in a time frame that is faster than crystal formation.

  • NeX
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Re: Training Time and Skill Remaps

Timed skill progression is actually a big part of what makes new players useful. Older players may still find it a lot of fun to use light bots and assaults. But over time, for important ops, it will always be best to put the more experienced players in heavier or more specialized bots, leaving lighter and/or less skill-intensive roles to newer players.

With long skills, what happens is people become specialized in a specific role. Rather than being mediocre across the board (bad training strategy), someone decides to push speed and heavy damage; others opt for range and stealth; others EWar. Choices matter, tactics are invented, characters develop along unique lines. What the devs need to ensure is that as large a variety of paths and options as possible is available.

If training is scaled so everything can be maxed in, say, 5 years, what happens if I only want to fight (and not build or trade?). Then I'm probably maxed out in a year or two. Less if I'm not interested in EWar or a particular weapon type.

  • Cons
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Re: Training Time and Skill Remaps

Arilou wrote:

Timed skill progression is actually a big part of what makes new players useful. Older players may still find it a lot of fun to use light bots and assaults. But over time, for important ops, it will always be best to put the more experienced players in heavier or more specialized bots, leaving lighter and/or less skill-intensive roles to newer players...

In fact what happens ... over time ... is that low level players become pointless and actually liabilities in hard PvP as they serve no role that has definitive impact. 

If you remember in EvE, entry into any good corp requires a huge focused skill point pool with lots of kill mails in your resume, or you are relegated to worthless newb corps, unless you know somebody who can get you in past the newb screenings.  ... Over time ... It won't be any different in Perpetuum.  Except for the fact that you can't effectively solo in Perp.  So now the newbs can't get into a good corp, and they can't solo effectively while building skills ... over time ...

If players had the ability to "reprogram" their bots, meaning remapping all their EP on the fly, coupled with realistic EP costs for the various skills trees, then a newb could focus on one task and in a relatively short time frame, do it well, and contribute meaningfully to important Ops.  The more advanced players would enjoy the fun of being able to tune up for a variety of roles, which would keep things fresh, compared to being forced into the same old specialized role that you MUST do based on the need to focus all EP on a single discipline.  That flexibility would be abundant fun.

I know I'm talking about a change to a very fundamental game philosophy.  But these kinds of things need to be considered now under the topic of learning from the mistakes of other developers.  It comes down to fun.  For me, the current situation is inflexible, takes forever, and creates a situation in which you pay and pay and pay and pay some more while waiting for enough skills development to make it fun.  If you tell me that, as a newb,  I can run around in wimpy bots and die quickly in any meaningful combat, then I'll tell you that is NOT my idea of fun.

  • NeX
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Re: Training Time and Skill Remaps

What? You do not need a lot of SP in EVE to be a good PvP pilot. You certainly don't need a lot to have fun as a PvP pilot. It takes at least a year in EVE anyway to tell the difference between good and crap alliances without having someone else label them for you. By then you're a solid player, well-skilled in a couple fun roles and within close reach of several more. To me, you sound like someone who can't have fun until you're the best player in the best group. Most people find anticipation and progress a huge part of the appeal.

As for Perp, you're in NeX, the perfect example of how effective a bunch of month-olds can be in this game. So we didn't tear established corps a new one on our first day; we didn't expect to. And yeah, we've got a few beta-aged players holding our hands a bit, but they're hardly the only ones doing anything meaningful.

As for EP remaps, they'd be totally pointless (... over time ...). There would be one track that takes more EP than others. As soon as someone has enough EP for that, EP gain is worthless to them. They can now remap to any profession they want and instantly be maxed out. This happens even sooner if you consider that speccing for a single fit is all that's really necessary (I can reassign my demob EP if I'm not fitting one). There's also no need for any Ext level between 0 and 10 at that point either. It will be all or nothing, depending on fit and situation.

If that's how you want it, then frankly you'd be better off asking to dump EP entirely. Then everything's down to player skill and NIC. I think that would be a lot of fun due to the similarities with Elite and X, but it's probably too fundamental a change for the game. Maybe you could have a simplified skill tree that basically amounts to qualifications for certain bots/mods. It wouldn't change any stats, just whether you can use the stuff at all. It would remove a lot of the variety in the game, though, which is a big part of the appeal.