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Perpetuum Forums → General discussion → Will transport missions benefit relations for refining after patch?
A future patch will make it so combat missions are no longer necessary to get relations up. Only industry missions will count. What counts as an industry mission? Will transports still count?
"Henceforth, the combat mission relations will not be effecting production. Industrial mission relations will still be calculated, as the facilities currently used by the Agents are owned and loaned by the Syndicate."
There's no mention of logistic mission relations, will these still be counted?
My guess would be Yes. But lets get an answer from a dev. 
If logic was applied then probably not, considering logistics does not really require refining.
Then again to balance it correctly, manufacturing assignments would be required.
nah... logistics will lower VAT and Market-fees 
As far as i know this information isn't documented anywhere... would help if we knew it.
Quoting from latest dev blog:
"Henceforth, the combat mission relations will not be effecting production. Industrial mission relations will still be calculated."
It just says combat missions will not affect production so, if no further changes are mentioned, I will assume no changes with transport missions. Furthermore last sentence doesn't say 'only' industrial missions.
Quoting from latest dev blog:
"Henceforth, the combat mission relations will not be effecting production. Industrial mission relations will still be calculated."
It just says combat missions will not affect production so, if no further changes are mentioned, I will assume no changes with transport missions. Furthermore last sentence doesn't say 'only' industrial missions.
Yea, its easy to see that combat missions wont effect production from what the do say... but doesnt say what combat missions WILL effect.
Is Recycling classed as production?... is the only reason to do combat to decrease repair costs and unlock higher level missions?
Its all very dry and wishy-washy... on the surface the blog makes the coming month look exciting and interesting... but actually, its very vague and shallow, to make it worse Devs arent answering questions directly.
Expectations need to be managed.
Celebro wrote:Quoting from latest dev blog:
"Henceforth, the combat mission relations will not be effecting production. Industrial mission relations will still be calculated."
It just says combat missions will not affect production so, if no further changes are mentioned, I will assume no changes with transport missions. Furthermore last sentence doesn't say 'only' industrial missions.
Yea, its easy to see that combat missions wont effect production from what the do say... but doesnt say what combat missions WILL effect.
Is Recycling classed as production?... is the only reason to do combat to decrease repair costs and unlock higher level missions?
Its all very dry and wishy-washy... on the surface the blog makes the coming month look exciting and interesting... but actually, its very vague and shallow, to make it worse Devs arent answering questions directly.
Expectations need to be managed.
I am just making an assumption on what they said in the dev blog, trying to read between the lines. It's clear that AC haven't answered the question directly, but my guess is they don't know yet and are trying to balance it the best way possible.
i think its rather simple: the standing bonus on facilities will not be based on average of all corporations of a conglomerate anymore, but based on the industrial ones.
or, all corporations will offer at least 1 industrial mission to raise standing with them
atm, for best relation you had to do at least one combat mission or combat related one (recon) to get all corps up. The transport missions atm cover 6 of 9 corporations just fine.
i think its rather simple: the standing bonus on facilities will not be based on average of all corporations of a conglomerate anymore, but based on the industrial ones.
Which would be a nerf, not a boost... you may not know this but currently relations have very little impact on the factorys.
Would a miner spend months grinding up standings to gain 1% more efficiency or would they rather just mine?
By only averaging on certain corps would make the relation LESS! making it even more pointless to run missions at all.
So no, not that simple.
or, all corporations will offer at least 1 industrial mission to raise standing with them
What about agents who want to level their average by only doing combat missions? if you want all corps to offer industry then you must have all corps to offer combat as well !
Im just playing devils advocate here, but what they say in the blog, isnt clear, certainly not "simple" and making assumptions about how it 'might' work is pointless.
I have a lot of questions about this right now but it's "wait and see".
Right now relations are across the sub-corporations. The average across all 9 sub-corps is what determines costs/benefits across all that mega-corps facilities.
This change adjusts that in some fashion which then will be balanced differently - but how?
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I raised all 27 corporations up to 1.06+ relations so far. I would put out how to do this but it's quite probably going to be antiquated info with the changes and I have no clue what the final results will be.
To put this in perspective:
There are 8 transport missions from the 3 starting terminals known as "the golden triangle" - not 5 and not 7. Doing just transport missions from the start, you'll see 5. If you do some mining missions, 2 more open up - thus 7. If you do some combat missions, another transport mission opens up, bringing the total to 8 -- per terminal.
The industrial corps also have some combat missions, so do the mining groups...
As such, there's a mix of TYPES of missions from each of they 27 corporations across the 3 megacorps.
Will this change with the update or will the types now apply towards the services in a different fashion? ...
if im not wrong, the current mission type distribution is exactly the same as your character creation attribute choice:
9 possible combinations, 9 possible corps to get as "starter corp"
1 that offers 3x combat missions (3x combat choice)
1 that offers 3x industrial missions (3x industrial choice)
1 that offers 3x transport missions (3x political choice)
...
if im not wrong, the current mission type distribution is exactly the same as your character creation attribute choice:
9 possible combinations, 9 possible corps to get as "starter corp"
1 that offers 3x combat missions (3x combat choice)
1 that offers 3x industrial missions (3x industrial choice)
1 that offers 3x transport missions (3x political choice)
...
It's not quite so easy. Here's a quick breakdown.
Level 0's - 9 corporations - 1 mission each.
-- each mission "somewhat" specific to the corp's functions.
Level 1's - 9 corporations - 3 missions each. (I'll cover 1 set out of TM real quick)
-- Corp 1: Mine - Find minerals - Transport (2 indy, 1 logistics)
-- Corp 2: 3 Transport (3 logistics)
-- Corp 3: Mine - Destroy - Transport (1 of each)
-- Corp 4: Transport - Destroy - Recon (2 combat, 1 logistics)
-- Corp 5: 2 Mine - Find minerals (3 indy)
-- Corp 6: Destroy - Mine - Find minerals (1 combat, 2 indy)
-- Corp 7: Recon - Transport - Bounty (2 combat, 1 logistics)
-- Corp 8: Destroy - Bounty - Recon (3 combat)
-- Corp 9: Mine - Find minerals - Transport (2 indy, 1 logistics)
Breakdown:
Industry - 10
Logistics - 8
Combat - 9
----------- 27
Now I'm not certain which counts as industry vs logistics but combat is pretty easy to spot. In any case, it makes no difference if you're going for relations building - all 9 being raised up helps the most. So who offers what that you can do is of far more importance and this "general relations building" is changing.
Level 2's gets to be even more fun being as sub-types change a bit. So on and so forth.
I had a plan to map it out and show a "best approach" on building relations quickly but I canned that until the changes come out. I don't know how it will all balance out.
The sub-types of assignments are rather important. Scanning for deposits is fast and tends to be safer - sitting there mining, not so fast and safe for assignments - plus cargo needed... Scanning 10 target NPCs - quick and easy, zero cargo needed and an industrial mech can do it. Collect 10 items from them and return in time... A bit trickier and you'll need cargo space plus weapons to pull it off.
So on and so forth...
---------------
It's not just 3 corps offering 3 of a type. There is a mix of types for other corporations and how all those different offerings will mix in is the question.
oh, thank you for the breakdown, but its exactly wha i meant -> the lvl1's are reflecting the nine possible attribute choices before spark.
if you look at it - theres only a single corp that has 3 combat missions - and you dont have to do a single on of it to raise standing with that corp. You simply do the industrial or logistic assignments of the sister corp (each mission gives you 1 primary and two secondary positive standings)
this works up to a standing of 4.0 with all of them
Right, now where do we add in the 12.5% combat bonus from the rep grind. Because grinding missions are so much fun, I think everyone should have the opportunity to earn a bonus from doing them, we are shorting the poor combat pilots!
come on arga - what if those:
While these new missions are only available to Agents with high relations (they are level 3 assignments) and form a small proportion of all missions in game, they serve as a great platform to test our new assignment features that will find their way into the entire assignment system.
are combat missions?
Probably the most frequent criticism we get about the game is the lack of PvE content. The development of this type of content is the most resource and time consuming of all, but we are of course committed to progress in these parts as well. While our sandbox storyline assignments may not turn out as grandiose as those in other dedicated themepark-MMOs, they will still be a nice breeze of fresh air for those interested in the lore and the ones looking for non-standard objectives.
Storyline just sounds more like "combat" for me.
and have you noticed the laste sentence here:
The Nians are becoming more clever and flexible - if you partially destroy a spawn group, it will keep coming at you. If you totally destroy a spawn group, the Nians will deploy a different kind of spawn the next time to keep you guessing. There’s also the chance that the spawn group may be an "elite" spawn - special forces carrying higher quality gear, or items that will lead to higher ranked Elite Spawns.
an item that "leads" me somewhere sounds like a event-base missionline, which starts from killing mobs, so it has to be a combat mission to, with a combat related reward.
short version:
Combat mission reward is access to higher combat missons that give you access to higher tier equipment that you gain by doing what your agent can do best: killing stuff.
but thats all guesswork as long as there is no patchlog with more details 
I iz being facitious about combat rep for bonus. Its just to show that having to grind for an advantage is kind of crappy, be it indy or pvp.
But i almost giggled for joy when I saw what you highlighted in the dev blog, because I like PVE fights
oh, thank you for the breakdown, but its exactly wha i meant -> the lvl1's are reflecting the nine possible attribute choices before spark.
if you look at it - theres only a single corp that has 3 combat missions - and you dont have to do a single on of it to raise standing with that corp. You simply do the industrial or logistic assignments of the sister corp (each mission gives you 1 primary and two secondary positive standings)
this works up to a standing of 4.0 with all of them
Exactly. Here's some additional details (as you may gather from my previous post - I *DID* do combat missions for the "3 combat only" group - the recon mission):
Low level combat missions were joke easy to do for rep "grinding". I don't recall exactly how many but maybe 24 missions across all 3 factions. I stacked them with others.
The mech and fittings I used:
Argano
- Head: geoscanner - chassis scanner
- Chassis: 3 mining lasers
- Legs: lwf - armor repairer
Extensions I used:
Parallel Assignments 5 (allows stacking of 6 missions)
Long Range Targeting 2 (get a bit more range for chassis scanning)
Jamming Electronics 3 (needed for full chassis scanner - 300m + 100m scan range)
I did them with "single target" basic skills and no points in faster locking.
The armor repairer was for mining missions - you get some of the little drones on you while doing them -- NOT for combat missions.
Stacking missions via Parallel Assignments let me run them quickly and easily - if relations is an issue - don't whine about this extension being needed.
Types of missions favored:
- combat: Recon - they "finish" in the field -- scan 5-10 mechs. You don't need guns for this, just scan the target mechs so it's run in range, scan, run out. I even did a couple L1's of these to give some space and the L1's had you getting hit with demobs and the like - no big deal if you know how to run in, scan, back out - repeat.
- mining: survey scanning: "finishes" in the filed, run in, toss a scan, run out. Mining ops also but they take more time.
- transport: the "golden triangle".
Very fast and easy if you stack the assignments. Any "combat are HARD" comments are a joke. Not a single gun on that mech and doing them was very easy even if 3 others were killing mechs - it didn't matter, I just scanned any of them to complete my assignment.
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With this - getting standings to 2.0 is not a major challenge. Beyond that is hard because of the loss of recon missions but, then again, the L2 missions for scanning via mining are very nasty. 3 spots to scan, all 3 at different points at T2/T3 mech sites, most with EW mechs... Not something all that easy to pull off. If there were recon missions, it would be EASY for non-combat types.
IMO this "removal of combat" wasn't needed. All that was needed is a full "map" by the community of how to do them and - from the dev side - *ADD* some recon missions for higher level assignments.
The rest would have been easy to document and fairly quick to complete.
* (why did I do this? that "golden triangle" is the most boring activity in the game and I decided to figure this stuff out to keep my brain from going to mush running in circles. - I also have a full mapping of which corporations give increases to what other corporations but that data will be outdated with the patch so it's worthless to publish it right now.)
Why even have a reputation system that has only 1 purpose in the game. Look back at all the 'level 2 missions don't pay' threads, the only reason to do them is for reputation, and the only thing in the game reputation has any real impact on is refining. A whole game system just to make sure alpha refiners can't compete with beta refiners - this smells of a left-over mechanice that was changed pre-release and never thought fully out since no one's actually complained about the grind until now.
Either complete the rep system or remove the dependancy to industry, so you only need rep to get higher level missions.
i guess, once there was a time planned when the standing would have caused police towers to shoot at you, or blocking your access from npc facilities. A time where your initial choice for a faction would have meant something.
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