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Topic: My very personal bad first impression

Greetings,

Let me list the reasons why I for one didn't like this game, if only for filling the first impression's book in the hope that the devs could find an useful pattern and manage to succeed in their enterprise.

1º) Combat
you took EVE's engagements and you added WASD. That's all you did. You kept the auto-attacking (not cool), the lock-timers (cool), the multitargetting mechanics and so on.

2º) Visual indicators and overview
Again, it feels like EVE + WASD, which is (really) bad for a ground-combat based game. In EVE all those red crosses and white icons flying around the screen make sense because they're hundreds of kilometers away. In PO, our interactive stuff is a few meters away.

My recommendation: look how ground-based MMOs deal with the visuals in their screen. There aren't red crosses in WoW's Orcs head because you can see them. They're in front of you, a few meters away. Other games opt for adding an "Enlighten-interactive-stuff-around-me-button".

Also, there's this PO's version of EVE's overview window. PO's version DOESN'T work. Why? Because the elements in the Overview are a few meters away from each other, running back and forth in the list which is annoying.

3º) Movement
Ok, this is a bit embarrassing. I for one like to be able to jump in ground based games. It boost my feeling of freedom.

Also, the camera movement is a bit clumsy.

4º) Bad initiation.
You made us chose between Russians, Asians or Americans. In a sci-fi world you could have been more subtle and imaginative.

Then we have to choose school, which is ok.

The next step is to choose our corporation, subsidiary corporation and finally the spark. I personally felt flooded with meaningless choices.

After our Agent creation, we're thrown into a bug-like robot without any further information or introduction to PO's world, which leads to the next point. 

5º) Lack of background story
This point is self-explanatory.

6º) Ugly avatars.
They're dated (like from early 90s).

Conclusion
PO feels like an EVE-clon. You have copied indiscriminately most of the EVE features without realizing that some of them don't work in a ground-based game or without trying to improve nor innovate.

It has potential, but since most of PO's ideas and features are borrowed from another game, there's nothing which leads me into trusting the improvement nor innovation of this game. I'll stay tuned in the hope I'm wrong.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Sorry for the double post, I couldn't find the Edit option.

I'd like to add my impression about the UI and the overall gameplay.

The control should be smoother.
The visual effects need some love too (gun-shot effects are weird).
Robot explosions are pretty good.
The terrain is odd. I know it's an alien planet, but indeed. However, the starting zone buildings are amazing.

Thanks for your time and I wish you luck!

3 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2011-07-17 15:06:43)

  • JOKE
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Re: My very personal bad first impression

I think you need to give it more time for improvement in the features you mention both more time to experience the game and time for devs to add new features. For me most of what you mention don't actually effect playability that much to let it go.

Jumping/movement:

This is a remotely control robot game where if you introduce jump will break immersion and will imbalance the game too much. What happens with impassable terrain?

Bad initiation:

Could be improved. Not an issue most don't care it's just the first 10minutes or so compared to months or years of play.


Back Ground story:

Again most don't care.  There are some improvement that could be added in the future for role players. Role playing mmos can be found left right and centre and most have horrid game play, so I would prefer AC to patch and create more content on the actual game play.

Avatars:

There is room for improvement but, I like a game with playability first and foremost, don't give a sh... about this one, and its not from the 90's, eve's old avatars where even worse.


Combat:

It works well in eve and imo it works quite well for both pvp and pve, why not take the features that works well in eve. Auto attacking?... just don't use it.


Visual indicators:

I think you have a good point, but I am really not sure what the best option will be. Red/ white crosses give a good indication if its a player or NPC. So I'm not sure what your changes should be as this is the only ground based mmo I have played.

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Ground-based either has nothing, or a floating name over a mob - basically a "consider" box like the targeting computer.  You can only select one target at a time, targeting shows you via name color if it is player, NPC, hostile, not hostile, the systems vary around that primary theme though.

But with PO the crosses work and something like this has to be used.

PCs and NPC's appear identical visually - something purposely avoided in other ground-based MMOs. 

This also doesn't clutter the screen with "First Star Havok" floating over/next to everything as it does with the players.  In most MMOS people turn mob names off, and sometimes their own/eachothers, because the words are all screenclutter and ultimately generate lag in raid situations.  And yes a mob can be within 40m of you and be really obviously an "Arkhe" or a "Prometheus", but you also sort of want to know what something is from 900-1500m away as it could see you from that distance even though it is rendering as a tiny glob of pixels (Player using a scannerbooster about to send a pound of potential ownage your way).

Need to point out it also keeps the doors wide wide open if someone gets knocked in the head and decides on air combat/dropships/etc and you're needing to target something flying at 1000m over your head. 

Background story: I care. smile It is also in the process of a rewrite.

Avatars: I admit I squealed like a happy kid at the avatars because, tbh, it reminded me of gaming in my youth and it sparked something from then.  So, 'dated' ehhh... art-style yes, but mechanics no.  And art 'style' could eventually be changed by one person with a sudden creative streak for an avatar-generator already filled with raw potential.  I mean look at the insane amount of variance available.  Issue is focusing on that with the size of the crew is not a priority.  There's the theory "if it looks good it is good" wink and then the theory 'if it plays well it is good' - despite my love of shiny and pretty - WHICH IS POWERFUL - Id rather the game be expanded on mechanically first, which is why they didn't focus too much on the avatar customisation if im recalling what I read correctly.

----
I play MMOs. I need a signature which is deep, thought provoking, and devours bandwidth with the voracity of rabid weasels. It is also, by nature, vaguely sad with a tinge of my obvious internal, unfathomable loneliness. Like this, sad  , but at 1.3megs packed into 2 by 6 inches. ANIMATED.
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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Your an "EVE vet" - that hurt you at the start-up screen.

This game, unlike most any other MMO I've ever played, has a useful and functional online help system.  When creating a character, those little blue backed "i" squares?  Click it.

Lower left of the creation screen, as you pick the corporations, sparks, etc...  Sits a list of links to the extensions you get - and that blue "i" will explain what those distinctions are about.

All you had to do is look and click to get the details you didn't have jammed in your face at the start.

Every window in the game has that (i) on it near the close-window "x".  Click it for details on that window.

So on and so forth.

Just because this game has a similar EP vs SP system and a landmarks window that looks a lot like EVE's overview...  Massive differences in how this plays and what is and is not possible to do here. 

No "jita" with more ships killed in a day than most major nullsec fleet ops, no "can baiters" at newbie stations, no can flippers, no ninja looters...  Mechs explode in PvP, causing damage to anyone nearby, PvE NPC's that you can't "AFK domi" tank-fit, very little differrences in how you fit for PvE vs PvP, spawn points vs "deadspace"...

yada... yada... yada...

There are a huge amount of differences and I'm still running into them as I learn more about this game.

6 Reply by Celebro (edited by Celebro 2011-07-18 12:32:06)

  • JOKE
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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Exactly right Marak, these 'kids' today have really short attention spans, can't be bothered reading the help system in place, and are too impatient.

Luckily  there are other mmo's for those types, but this is not one of them imo.

RIP PERPETUUM
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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Marak Mocam wrote:

Your an "EVE vet" - that hurt you at the start-up screen.

This game, unlike most any other MMO I've ever played, has a useful and functional online help system.  When creating a character, those little blue backed "i" squares?  Click it.

Lower left of the creation screen, as you pick the corporations, sparks, etc...  Sits a list of links to the extensions you get - and that blue "i" will explain what those distinctions are about.

All you had to do is look and click to get the details you didn't have jammed in your face at the start.

Every window in the game has that (i) on it near the close-window "x".  Click it for details on that window.

So on and so forth.

Just because this game has a similar EP vs SP system and a landmarks window that looks a lot like EVE's overview...  Massive differences in how this plays and what is and is not possible to do here.

I wasn't even complaining about its steep learning curve. (i) icons? I saw them. I read them, nothing has changed from my original post.

Marak Mocam wrote:

No "jita" with more ships killed in a day than most major nullsec fleet ops, no "can baiters" at newbie stations, no can flippers, no ninja looters...  Mechs explode in PvP, causing damage to anyone nearby, PvE NPC's that you can't "AFK domi" tank-fit, very little differrences in how you fit for PvE vs PvP, spawn points vs "deadspace"...

yada... yada... yada...

There are a huge amount of differences and I'm still running into them as I learn more about this game.

Most of the features you list are player-made content. Anti-blob mechanics are a nice addition, and I can't discuss robot's rol in depth since the trial version was very limited and I already uninstalled the game.

Like someone else said, this game needs to look for its own identity. Copying EVE may benefit them in a lot of aspects, but they need to realize that some of EVE's features don't work in a ground-combat based MMO.

I really wish that PO succeed. We need more sandboxes out there. I'd love to come here in a year and see that PO has become a great game with its own identity and background story yarr

But first, they need to polish their un-responssive overview and other UI elements and visuals.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Most of the features you list are player-made content. Anti-blob mechanics are a nice addition, and I can't discuss robot's rol in depth since the trial version was very limited and I already uninstalled the game.

Like someone else said, this game needs to look for its own identity. Copying EVE may benefit them in a lot of aspects, but they need to realize that some of EVE's features don't work in a ground-combat based MMO.

I really wish that PO succeed. We need more sandboxes out there. I'd love to come here in a year and see that PO has become a great game with its own identity and background story yarr

But first, they need to polish their un-responssive overview and other UI elements and visuals.

Player made? more like CCP made and they let players run with whats considered "game mechanics"

as for identity most mmo's are "clone's" in one way or another. I could sit here and list game after game after game of "Clones" to this and many other mmo's those that played this game for more then 5 mins and didnt uninstalled Saw a potential and we are sticking with it. Being a eve vet myself I can tell you Eve Looked like utter crap at release and took time (A lot og time) to get it up to snuff. and as for this vs eve clone well ever play X1/X3 games or some of the other Space games. Guess what alot of eve "features" were cloned too. I will agree with another poster the fact you had a "EVE" mind when you started the trial hurt you more than anything.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Eve reminds of me Sins of a solar empire

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

RealmeanDigsy wrote:

Player made? more like CCP made and they let players run with whats considered "game mechanics"

as for identity most mmo's are "clone's" in one way or another. I could sit here and list game after game after game of "Clones" to this and many other mmo's those that played this game for more then 5 mins and didnt uninstalled Saw a potential and we are sticking with it. Being a eve vet myself I can tell you Eve Looked like utter crap at release and took time (A lot og time) to get it up to snuff. and as for this vs eve clone well ever play X1/X3 games or some of the other Space games. Guess what alot of eve "features" were cloned too. I will agree with another poster the fact you had a "EVE" mind when you started the trial hurt you more than anything.

You're right. It's not even a bad thing all the cloning situation. It just becomes a bad thing when the stuff "ported" from one game to another doesn't work, and that's what I'm pointing out, the stuff which doesn't work imo. But you're wrong when you think that I had "EVE" in mind; If I'd have "EVE" in mind I'd love all those EVE references but they are bugging me utterly. What has hurt me is all those ground-based MMOs; I expected to feel a "ground-based-game" but I left disappointed because of the "Flying-based-ground-game" situation.

I think that negative opinions are as important as positive ones to help in the development of this game.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Nanotechnomech wrote:

Greetings,

Let me list the reasons why I for one didn't like this game, if only for filling the first impression's book in the hope that the devs could find an useful pattern and manage to succeed in their enterprise.

1º) Combat
you took EVE's engagements and you added WASD. That's all you did. You kept the auto-attacking (not cool), the lock-timers (cool), the multitargetting mechanics and so on.
They also added terrain, buildings and other ground based items. It's really not just "Adding WASD". While the entire game is very similar to EVE it follows a lot of Sci-Fi MMO concepts with their own flare added.


2º) Visual indicators and overview
Again, it feels like EVE + WASD, which is (really) bad for a ground-combat based game. In EVE all those red crosses and white icons flying around the screen make sense because they're hundreds of kilometers away. In PO, our interactive stuff is a few meters away.
When you're 200m from a target the items shrink small enough to see the robot you are engaging. Pasting 500m you won't really be able to tell what weapon systems they're using. You can also turn off additional icons if you wish to have a true hardcore experience. You can also freeze the overview sorting and they're working on making it jump around much less. (In EVE have you ever got 3KM/s in a 50 man fleet? It doesn't stay still either, try sorting by name and then range perhaps?

3º) Movement
Ok, this is a bit embarrassing. I for one like to be able to jump in ground based games. It boost my feeling of freedom.
Also, the camera movement is a bit clumsy.
Bunny-hoppers ruin the feel of MMOs instantly. Seeing a big deadly monster bounding around like a dragon with ADHD isn't fun or cool. If they add jumping (Leaping or short range teleporters) it'll be done to a calmer style

4º) Bad initiation.
You made us chose between Russians, Asians or Americans. In a sci-fi world you could have been more subtle and imaginative.
Then we have to choose school, which is ok.
The next step is to choose our corporation, subsidiary corporation and finally the spark. I personally felt flooded with meaningless choices.
After our Agent creation, we're thrown into a bug-like robot without any further information or introduction to PO's world, which leads to the next point.
Yes yes yes and yes. Character creation is stupidly complicated in a game where if you don't specialise you're failing. I myself requested a better system and even provided a better text system that I don't think ever got implemented. For shame, it might have saved you some time. *Scowl at devs* I even suggest a basic and adv. character creator for much easier creation.

5º) Lack of background story
This point is self-explanatory.
It's there but it's not very good. The underlying story is great. Remote controlled robots on a far away world but I for one would have been happy not having humanity involved.

6º) Ugly avatars.
They're dated (like from early 90s).
One of the oldest features in the game from back in 2006 dev I believe. They're not meant to be pretty and they most certainly aren't meant to be walking around in terminals.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

I do agree to some of your points, but this is a young game, and comparing it to eve (which has had many more years of development), is quite frankly a bit unfair. For now, I think it's important to see the direction and if it's the type of game you'd like to play, the devs listen a lot to feedback and are working really hard on some of the things you mentioned. Sadly, not everything can happen instantaneously. I hope you have the patience to try it a bit longer and find a niche you enjoy.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

You were expecting not a ground based MMO, but a biological based MMO.  The UI works fine for what its meant for.  Maybe your UI isn't set up optimally?  Post a screenshot?

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

The only point I think you make that's interesting and valid is the rapidly-shifting overview.  The rest is either subjective or "... and that's bad how?"

The general way EVE does things is a good way to run a sandbox.  Nested info, context menus, etc., etc., work very well for a hi tech world with no fog of war.  Why reinvent the wheel?

That said, one would expect more iteration and innovation as time goes on, otherwise one will be disappoint.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Nanotechnomech wrote:

Sorry for the double post, I couldn't find the Edit option.

Yes, forum user interfaces can be complex and confusing.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

I found the character creation process was wrong. I don't want to learn the whole game before I make a character. I want to learn whilst I am playing.

Also, realizing that you have made a  crap and unchangeable build is not fun. Many will quit at this stage as I am doing.

In addition, the trial is very restrictive. I did not find much to do. Repeating 3 quests is not fun and the combat is slow.

I hope your game is a success, but in it's present form it is not for me.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

apart from the character creation (spark choice should be FIRST as it determines your initial "class") all your complaints are cosmetics. sure there are UI problems (like you have to click the icon and cannot click the robot body) but all in all, this is much better than what EVE was when I started there in 2005.

as for the avatars, EVE had a similar ugly system. it was reworked because of failcarna. nobody cared about them anyway since you are a ship (or robot in PO) ingame with no human body.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

There's been quite some replies already, so I'll just note something regarding

Nanotechnomech wrote:

1º) Combat
you took EVE's engagements and you added WASD. That's all you did. You kept the auto-attacking (not cool), the lock-timers (cool), the multitargetting mechanics and so on.

Different to EvE, turning off auto attacking can be a strategically important choice, which appears to be used here. As line of sight has to be considered, Shooting, then hiding behind an obstacle - with stopped weapon cycle is something you won't find over there.

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Re: My very personal bad first impression

Hi Nano...the ants are running about as a consequence of the hill being kicked over.  I'll admit I'm as biased as the next person because I have a positive impression of the game.  In light of your post, I'll try to be as objective and realistic as possible.  Before I get started though, I wanted to say thanks.  You're taking the time to offer your thoughts which may help improve the game in the long run.  It's quite unlike the "Perp's graphics are trash" guy in that other thread.  That said, let's discuss these thoughtfully written points.

Nanotechnomech wrote:

1º) Combat
you took EVE's engagements and you added WASD. That's all you did. You kept the auto-attacking (not cool), the lock-timers (cool), the multitargetting mechanics and so on.

Not really.  EVE's engagements with NPCs are all about getting into range x, turning on tank modules and waiting patiently to either blow up stuff or have to warp out.  In the case of PvP, it's all about sitting at a gate camp having a drunken laugh with 80 of your best friends while you wait for a lone mining barge to try to traverse lowsec or shooting at a static structure for a few days until it runs out of fuel and blows up.

Nanotechnomech wrote:

2º) Visual indicators and overview
Again, it feels like EVE + WASD, which is (really) bad for a ground-combat based game. In EVE all those red crosses and white icons flying around the screen make sense because they're hundreds of kilometers away. In PO, our interactive stuff is a few meters away.

True, the screen has red plus signs on it.  I don't really think the differences in range matter much because the scale of objects is relatively similar.  I mean, hunched behind my 15 inch screen in my mom's basement while playing the other game puts my mining iteron on about the same size ratio as my harvesting sequer.  The fact that the numbers of meters are higher doesn't change the relative scales much.

Nanotechnomech wrote:

3º) Movement
Ok, this is a bit embarrassing. I for one like to be able to jump in ground based games. It boost my feeling of freedom.

Also, the camera movement is a bit clumsy.

I totally concede this point.  Jumping would be fun, but since there are no female avatars, there's hardly any possible jiggle factor so I don't know if it'd add any value to the game.  Regarding camera movement, it's pretty much identical to a lot of other MMOs and I personally find it pretty intuitive.

Nanotechnomech wrote:

4º) Bad initiation.
You made us chose between Russians, Asians or Americans. In a sci-fi world you could have been more subtle and imaginative.

Then we have to choose school, which is ok.

The next step is to choose our corporation, subsidiary corporation and finally the spark. I personally felt flooded with meaningless choices.

After our Agent creation, we're thrown into a bug-like robot without any further information or introduction to PO's world, which leads to the next point.

Once again, point conceded.  From a new player perspective, I found the character creation to offer choices that had impact on my skills and attributes that wasn't in-my-face simple to understand.  It got the job done, but it was a little bit time consuming to make sense of it all.  As for racial selection, I don't feel this is a very crucial shortcoming.  It's flavor for the game and just about everyone I know loves Russia.

Nanotechnomech wrote:

5º) Lack of background story
This point is self-explanatory.

It's coming.  There's a lot of fleshing out to be done and the AC staff is working hard to make improvements.  While a story is nice, it doesn't really detract from the core focus of the MMO.  I'd like to know about the world, but I'm okay with just molesting corp members in the channel without worrying about it so much.

Nanotechnomech wrote:

6º) Ugly avatars.
They're dated (like from early 90s).

This I totally disagree with.  Johnny is smoking hot.  He's a dashing rogue with a beard that makes angels weep and hair that women swoon over.  Have you seen some of the characters in this game.  I have trouble focusing on the game when I'm in the corp channel because of the sexual stimulation that borders on absolute overload.  Delicious!

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