• CIR
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Topic: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

As I understand it, the current game code is designed so that every bot can only occupy one game square at a time.  Currently for bots to get any bigger, they have to get taller so as not to expand beyond that square.  Thus, the current shape of the Lithus.

Have the DEV's come up with any theories in regard to this?

I was thinking that future bots could be large, slow-moving 'hovercraft' that ignore the current grid system and conform to a different 'grid' overlaid over the current one.

Also, the use of squares seems to be problematic in regards to bot expansion.  Would the changing of the grid to a series of concentric hexagons make more sense?  All bots could then occupy one hex and the next size of bots could occupy three. Larger bots would occupy 7 hexes and so forth.  The mean of the slope values in these concentric 'rings' would produce a new 'grid' that each size bot would conform to in regards to movement.  I suppose this solution could be applies to squares, but hexes seem to make more sense.

Obviously this will take some programming but at some point in the game this issue needs to be addressed.  I would be inclined to combine this with the game's first graphical tune-up or overhaul and release it as an expansion, along with the next series of bots utilizing large weapons, in an 18 month time-frame.

I think this is where the game needs to be at its two year birthday.  While one team works on this, the other can continue to focus on PvE expansion ideas, ways to encourage Beta activity and other general issues.  Good luck DEV's!

  • M2S
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

Its not the size, persay, but the animations.  They can't to multi-bodied mechs to achieve things like a cat that has independent front/rear legs (shiva) or a train like hauler.

Tbh, if they want to achieve realistic train effects theys have to implement turning radii so the multiple parts just dont glide around when turning.  But, that poses all sorts of combat problems and quirks that may not be expected.

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  • BKK
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

while a hexagon grid would be fun... the terrain data is like a 16bit image with several layers - each square is 1 pixel, but 10x10m ingame. i dont know how someone could make change the shape of a pixel without increasing the DPI smile

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
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  • M2S
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

I think you should reinvent the pixel so it makes a hexagon.  So much more natural to look at, more efficient, and civ V would look great on it!

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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

Multi-tiled animations is an issue but at the same time look at the way the mining heavy mech moves. It seems that each arch reacts to the surrounding terrain.

I am wondering what is holding back larger robots or at least robots with a larger footprint.
I know BoyC is working on memory issues at the moment but it would be nice to know what's holding back larger robots or better Lithus models. tongue

6 Reply by Uncle Zo (edited by Uncle Zo 2011-07-14 22:10:32)

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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

Do you all think releasing a brilliant expansion at the two year mark is reasonable?  Dare we state that the 'We're a small independent developer.' will only last so long for AC.  I can just hear it now.  "stEVE was at such and such a point at two years blah blah blah."  I think it's safe to say that we're all enjoying the game as is, but at the one year mark in January I can see a lot of the one-year vets realistically asking, 'What to do now?'. 

Not trying to derail my own thread or anything.  I only ask this in regard to the graphics overhaul and content expansion mentioned in the OP.

7 Reply by Neoxx (edited by Neoxx 2011-07-14 23:07:11)

  • M2S
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

Would it involve impassible terrain calculations?  Currently the collision only happens at the middle point of the bot, so how would longer bots be handled?  Just 1 point in the middle, a line down the center, or actual collision box?  Would be interesting if larger bots can't squeeze bewteen certain openings between plants and stuff.

Id love to see something like this:

All bots: fit through any opening, even 2 diagonal impassible tiles. Wont change much from current.

Mechs and Sequer: all except the diagonal.  (1 tile wide)

Heavies:  1.5 wide. Can fit through "1 down 2 over" diagonal space or wider.  (Think knight chess piece movement).

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  • CIR
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

If the collision point is determined at the middle of the bot then what is the point of 'squares'?  The game terrain should be a concentric series of pixils at that point.  Or smallish squares or areas. 

Baa.  This level of game coding is beyond my expertise, which is about zero.  Still, there is some logic here that may be applied to the game. What say you DEV's?

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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

and I was wondering why some bots look so strange :-)

  • DERP
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

It is not only multi-body bots that are an issue there are also issues with animating other bits on the bots turrets etc.

As to where they are, last I heard 8 mths+ ago they were writing the new system, probably not much further considering all the other work they have been doing after release, compared to some of the other features that is relatively minor.  But it is there and they have done at least some work possibly a lot of work.

  • BKK
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Re: Where are the DEV's at in regard to'one-bot-per-square' limitation?

mutli-tile robots will need much more math/rules  regarding LoS, and a kind of "hitbox" system

right now, LoS is only a matter of "how high is the bot on this tile", but with wider or longer bots, it also becomes an issue "where should the LoS aim".

you can hear the whining of players complaining that this 3 tile long hauler cannot be hit when his center tile is behind an indestructible lightpole but the rest of the 30m long robot would present you a huge surface to hit...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear