Topic: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Some of my pals and I went out the other day to run some L2 missions and what we found is that it you will burn more NIC in ammo costs than the mssions are worth.  I find this to be a huge problem as it really messes with the flow of the game.  It literally is better for me to run L1's until I am blue in the face as opposed to L2's.  I will try the L3's once I get my faction higher (hopefully things are more balanced there) but for future up and comers the L2 mission rewards need a serious boost in NIC.  Also L2's should not have bullets as rewards as most people running these missions are not using bullets.  I look forward to anyone elses input.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Combat missions in general really need a boost, so yes.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Ammo rewards are also very small.

4 (edited by Arga 2011-07-03 07:48:13)

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

I agree with the OP, and the advanced combat missions need to be revised, but not for the stated reason. Combat and transport missions are in the same boat here, where the time required to complete the mission (not the cost of the ammo) is out of balance after level 1.

The dev's are working on adding in a time bonus for missions, so completing them faster gives you more reward. Which is all well and good, except that in many cases the missions seem balanced around multiple players in a squad, and not for solo play. Which, if that carries forward, the combat missions will be even less effcient to run as a solo player, since small groups will be needed to get them done 'faster' for the bonus.

There needs to be seperate assignment lines for solo and group combat assignments. This is really the only assignments that can be improved by adding more players, that is 2 players can't run a transport mission faster than 1, same with mining and scanning missions.

Tl;dr - Encourage group play with assignments balanced around multiple players, but add higher level assignments that solo players can complete too, with appropriate rewards for both. Meaning if it's easier/faster, then the reward is less, but it's more than a lower level assignment in terms of NIC/hour.

Edit: FYI, the reason I mention transport is for the same reason, players will continue to run the 'laps' of level 1 instead of going to level 2 because the NIC/hour is better on the laps. Only indy looking to raise rep bother to go to 2, or beta players moving through to 5/6.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

The main reward from missions is standing gain. The exception being Level 1 transport and some geology missions. Doing missions for money works in Eve, but not here. You will not like level 3 either.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

L2 courier missions are even worse!
You'll have 3 missions, total, per outpost, and they send you all over creation to finish them, for the same rewards and standing gains as doing the L1 mission loop... you can just go a little higher in standings.

For industrial types it's flat out counterproductive to do more than the L1 loop, which is far too easy (and lucrative).  The industrial's time is better spent mining and building and never leaving their home station... they just suffer because making standings is a pointless grind to nowhere.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

I agree, the combat missions need a rebalance, as they are not competitive with lvl1 couriers or other activities (pure ratting, for example).

8 (edited by Jack Jombardo 2011-07-11 16:34:40)

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

I tryed some L2 with a buddy and it wasn't worth it.
- L1 are solo doable
- L1 have FAR less risk as they don't have EW (stupid ECM blues, stupid neut greens)
- you need 100 times the amu to kill the NPC then you get as reward
- the money you get must be used to buy amu
- reward is split by 2 when done with a buddy => you get less NIC peer person then L1 give you when you do them solo
- handling the L2 take much longer then rush L1s

There is just one reason to do L2: grind standing sad.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Didn't compare the rewards, but I noticed L2 have better loot and more plasma to sell though.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Get 3 guys the same L2 mission,
suppress the spawn with superior firepower
???
NIC

Unless you really want to farm rep with the island you are on, how about changing the island to a one with more of your natural prey? Less ammo for pew pew, more nic for stomp stomp bots.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

It's not all bad, there are some gems in there. Theres a level 3 combat mission out of TMA that effectively pays you 212k to run from the terminal to fort donnerth 2 teleport and back. Of course you have to kill some guys and take their loot, but that's already pretty profitable at the spawn in question. Just intersperse it with running back and forth to the terminal for 212k each time, saves on hauling too!

Another level 3 out of TMA asks you to stow all your gear in cargo, equip a LWF, and run to bellicha outpost and back for ~100k. While you're there, you should probably throw those mods back on and kill a whole >five< guys. They drop pretty decent stuff for an inner island, but I wouldn't call them profitable. Sure, it's not great, but if you were looking for something to do after you got bored of running back and forth to the teleport...

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Well here are my thought on combat missions and also the NPCs you face.

Fir of all L0 and L1 combat missions are easy and done quickly. Nothing wrong with them as i see it, in fact the most likely thing that will slow you down are slow spawn rates or too many people doing the mission.

Then there is the insane jump in difficulty from L1 to L2. You need about 5 times the usual damage, the enemy damage is untankable and the drops arent that much better. The higher mission reward is often nullified simply because you also have to travel further to get to the spawn site. The higher plasma-drops don't offset the higher ammo costs. And you loose standing.

So here are my suggestions:

- Reduce travel times.
- Reduce difficulty(damage and hitpoints, dont give them additional resists) of L2 and L3 Rats on Alpha islands. They will still use EW and stuff so they are still dangerous.
- Give out more ammo(like 300-500) as a mission reward and also of varying types, not always the same.
- Increase plasma-drops for beta NPCs

One last thing: All my observation are based on my relatively low extensions and only for light and assault bots.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

ZUBO wrote:

Well here are my thought on combat missions and also the NPCs you face.

Fir of all L0 and L1 combat missions are easy and done quickly. Nothing wrong with them as i see it, in fact the most likely thing that will slow you down are slow spawn rates or too many people doing the mission.

Then there is the insane jump in difficulty from L1 to L2. You need about 5 times the usual damage, the enemy damage is untankable and the drops arent that much better. The higher mission reward is often nullified simply because you also have to travel further to get to the spawn site. The higher plasma-drops don't offset the higher ammo costs. And you loose standing.

So here are my suggestions:

- Reduce travel times.
- Reduce difficulty(damage and hitpoints, dont give them additional resists) of L2 and L3 Rats on Alpha islands. They will still use EW and stuff so they are still dangerous.
- Give out more ammo(like 300-500) as a mission reward and also of varying types, not always the same.
- Increase plasma-drops for beta NPCs

One last thing: All my observation are based on my relatively low extensions and only for light and assault bots.

Good ideas to make the game more fun and playable smile
I feel kinda stuck at the lvl 1 missions... possibly I just need a better robot and more EP.
If I wanted to just grind and grind the same thing I'd go for the triangle of booredom, so making the combat missions more profitable and with a more clear way of advancing would perhaps benefit the game smile

14 (edited by Baal 2011-07-12 12:52:37)

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

(double post, d'oh)

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

I strongly feel that combat L2 missions and above are tuned for squads of 2 or more, but can be solo'd, it's just more difficult and less profitable.

There needs to be two types of combat missions, solo and group.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

All combat assignment should be worth 50% more and all assignment that do not give an ammo or bonus reward increased by 100%

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

The whole mission system is borked.

After getting into my assualt and respectable in it I headed out to Level 2 country, expecting them to be solo'able with a moderate increase in difficulty.

Instead I find the rewards while higher are good but the missions themselves are far far away in a distant galaxy across impassible terrain, making the journey to them far far longer.

When I arrive I find 2 different mech types one is perfectly reasonable to do and the other smaller mechs throw nrg drain and demob at you like there's no tommorrow.

And no there's not just one of these there's at least 3, they use active hardners to nigh on make themselves immune to the dmg type required to kill the others and are completely overpowered, both it what they can do and how many of them their are.

Missions should scale gradually IMHO.

Lev 1 and 2's should be soloable and even 3's though harder without atleast one teammate.

Level 4's being more suited to corps and larger groups.

At eh moment there is a insane ramp up between levels the rewards make them pointless and the distance to get to and from them makes them a absolute chore.

If they are to stay at such distances then the player/group should have the ability to either place mobile bases/camps with various facilitys, and or drop ships available or at the very least make filed deployable teleports use practical, at the moment they are simply too expsensive to their warrent use.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Agreeing that missions do not give proper rewards for the amount of work necessary.

19 (edited by MinerDude 2011-08-11 20:40:48)

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

I just finished the storyline missions and even they pay kind of low for the amount of travel/work thats involved. I ended up doing the entire set and getting around 750k. Keep in mind these are meant to do as a group. I had to travel across two islands and then back again. I know you get some kernals and loot but the rep isnt even that great. Grinding 3s seems to be a great deal faster.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

missioning in broken after lvl1.
lvl2's offer little or no reward and there's talk of a bonus reward if completed quicker which is failscale... most of the lvl2's require 5mins of travelling to the mission then another 5mins returning.... lvl3's are somewhat of a slight improvement but not near enough to force u to grind through the lvl2's.
grinding is far more of a profitable enterprise... please don't turn this into korean grind game sad
assign some dev time and revitalise missioning.. the bulk of the missioners are combat orientated but are driven from the game by subpar gaming experience in missioning.
I know the rewards can be increased with certain skills but most new combateers will pump the bulk of their EP into combat related skills but until its improved no one will pump the rewards skills cept the transporteers as its a mighty waste of EP.
The item market as a whole is grind based hence why they cost so much and sell for so little.. builders in small corps  cannot compete unless they exceed T1 this futher discourages player retention.
Fixes: some form of revamp for rewards is needed... travel time multiplyer maybe will help.. increase the basic reward for solo missioneers.. completion time bonus from the moment combat/recon/mining starts not from the moment u accept the mission. Also maybe for miners a bonus for exceeding the amount of mined ore needed. I also liked the idea previously suggested of the high ranked missions being team based.
Also a difficulty ranking system for missions could to be implemented for again further rewards.
Ewar missions are needed..
There are 3 general types of players in this game.... ewar/combat and miners... of the 3 only the transporteers of the missioneers progress past lvl1 missions and thats only because they are being forced to.
Summery: fix misisons and fast.. (though this comment is mainly about combat missions i've tried to keep it as general as i could...) if u don't u will continue to bleed players. If u do then u will a resirgence of msissioning and a far greater player retention.
In the end its about the NIC and missioning fails to deliver

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

you know, The DEVs are working on missions right now, and the current "storyline" missions are a testbed for the new missions?

mission changes take a huge ammount of developing time, let alone the mission descriptions.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

imo there isn't really anything wrong with mission difficulty. I started running mish when I joined up to the game and had progressed to lvl 3 within a week. Within another week the lvl 3 mish had become a breeze.
'The people here complaining about lvl 2 being nigh-on impossible really should try again after accumulating EP for a few days.

I totally agree that the rewards are pathetic, and farming is gonna be a better option 99 times out of 100

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

NPC spawns should only contain 1 dmg type, and only mech types suitable fot the mech that they are designed for.

Currently my mech is sat in my hanger even though I can use it and have reasonable skills I can't hit anything with it because the devs went down the insane route of making cheap smaller mechs virtually immune to the really expensive mechs.

While smaller mechs should have a role it shouldn't be like this, a players expectation should be to grow into more powerful mechs, not be sat in a castel and thinking dinner time when they see a large mech comming over the hill.

Mission wise they are pointless over level 1 bar for standing, they take too long for the reward, and the mob makeup and their abilities puts them out of reach for many that play solo, and teamwise they would be pointless to do because of income.

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Buck Starshine wrote:

NPC spawns should only contain 1 dmg type, and only mech types suitable fot the mech that they are designed for.

Currently my mech is sat in my hanger even though I can use it and have reasonable skills I can't hit anything with it because the devs went down the insane route of making cheap smaller mechs virtually immune to the really expensive mechs.


What are reasonable skills for you?

Buck Starshine wrote:

While smaller mechs should have a role it shouldn't be like this, a players expectation should be to grow into more powerful mechs, not be sat in a castel and thinking dinner time when they see a large mech comming over the hill....

I know enough players that can possibly one-shot castels with their mechs. Mech class is not a progression, its a different class. If you compare it with RPG, your asking for the rouge to progress into a paladin, or the mage into a warrior.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: L2 combat missions rweards are not worth enough

Some L3's give worse rewards than L2's.  USAD L3 missions from TMA versus the L2's from Bellicha come to mind.  Yeah, I realize travel comes into play, but a L2 D&R was giving me 0.1 boost and a L3 bounty was giving 0.03 and less NIC.

Personally, I'd like to see a very, very small amount of medium ammo being rewarded starting with L3's.